Tottenham 0-0 West Ham

[aspursfan]

I'm with you about Defoe writing on his shirt, WJ. Can't believe he has the audacity to come out and talk about how he considered quitting because he wasn't starting enough games. Blah blah blah! He should consider himself lucky to play for us while going that long without scoring. Look at Pav! He never starts and scores much more often than Defoe.

I was just saying to my girlfriend today how I wish someone would score from a free kick just because it's been forever since Bentley did it and then Bale comes so close!

[bigv]

I think defoe's tshirt actually read "100 misses and not off the pitch mate" if im not mistaken

[aspursfan]

I think defoe's tshirt actually read "100 misses and not off the pitch mate" if im not mistaken

 

[aspursfan]

Just saw the Ars*nal score and feel a bit better.

[Gareth Keown]

ok..... I've heard enough of this Defoe-bashing s**te long enough

 the guy is a striker and he has scored 2 goals the last 2 games....  I'm not his biggest fan but the last 2 seasons he's been very good with his overall contribution in making runs/space for others as well as being less selfish in front of goal.... he hasnt played regularly cos Arry needs to play to the gallery and has to shoehorn in Vaart most of the time..... tell me when does Vaart play well without Crouch next to him to supply him with tap-ins ??.... once, against Villa.... thats IT....1 frekkin game..

I'm actually quite relieved after this final nail in the coffin for finishing Top4 this season.... you have got what you wished for.... Vaart playing (without a proper lone-striker) as much as possible.... Arry likes to please you... he needs to please you for his own ego...

Defoe did very well today... the 2 chances he had were deceptively difficult: 1 micro-second to react to the 1st, and actually doing pretty well to hit the target with little time to adjust to the chance for the 2nd (a great SAVE by Green)...

its over.

[bigv]

I think he had more than 2 chances gareth. Its clear you dont like the "big Name" players at Spurs such as modric and vdv. I admire your loyalty to the underperforming players such as jenas defoe and that other guy you are always on about. Were you picked on at school??

[Gareth Keown]

Modric did as well as he could, so I've no complaints today about him...

I wasnt initially a fan of Defoe when he 1st came, as he was v.selfish and seldom made runs to open up space for others and seldom passed when he could shoot...... ironically, now that he does those things far more he now gets slated for not scoring enough (when this season he's been 2nd choice and also had 3 months off injured).... he's 1 of my favourite players now and IMO would make the complete 2nd-striker (if played as such)...

Vaart was a TOTAL WASTE OF SPACE today, how you can defend this regularly lazy primadonna who pootles around in deep-midfield rather than work his arse off trying to find/create space for others upfront.... all concepts totally over-the-head of you children.... is not even surprising anymore....

NB - please DO remember to have your excuses ready to defend why he YET AGAIN walked off down the tunnel in a huff at being subbed, rather than support his teammates pitchside.... 

[bigv]

Granted Vdv was poor today and his inclusion sometimes causes as many conundrums as it does improvements. I was replying in response to your blind defense of defoe who was a disaster today in front of goal. It saddens me to see a squad with so much potential completely stifled by such a sterile strikeforce or management who at this stage in the season does not know how to get it right up front.

[Gareth Keown]

Defoe is not a lone-striker... Defoe had strijkes on goal that were saved.... so did Pav.... 2 good strikers..

lets all look forward to the many games with Vaart, yet to come..... for years 

[WilsonJet]

Gareth Keown has "had enough". Oh, the irony! Defoe has scored 3 goals in Spurs last 34 Premier League games. Twice against Wolves and not since a PK against Chelsea April 17th, 2010. Let me repeat. I own the man's shirt. He is my favorite player. HE IS NOT DOING HIS JOB!

And when you say, "it's over". To what are you referring? Would that be this thread, the discussion of Defoe's lack of scoring, the season, Spurs Champions League aspirations for next year, or Spurs future as a top 10 club in the world?

I'm not defending Vaart (not many are on this forum today). If you were following the shout box you can see how I felt about his performance. GK, you say that "we've got what we wanted" and "what we asked for". I never clamored for a Defoe / vdV pairing although I enjoy watching both players in action. In fact, as I was watching the game I thought to myself that you really nailed it in terms of recognizing that the pairing would not work and abou how long it would last.

I know that when you say "you" what you really mean is the "the mindless flock" that you love to reference. There's no such thing. You've fabricated the whole concept so that you can individuate yourself and somehow feel special; actually, so that you can feel superior. If it helps, I think you are very special.

How can you assume that Vaart walks to the dressing room because he is sulking rather than for immediate treatment for chronic issues? I don't know the answer but I don't presume to know either. Just like I don't presume to know what Joe Jordan said to Gattuso either. You are so concerned about "proper sporting behavior" but can't even manage common decency and civility within this forum.

[aspursfan]

I'm probably going to regret even biting at this, but why not.

I'm not defending Defoe anymore (as I did against your comments, GK, earlier in the season) because of the audacity he's shown by making a statement about wanting to quit and the utter disrespect he's shown to the club, as well as his teammates by making those statements. Bentley is supposedly really full of himself, but when asked (after his loan move)  if he held it against Redknapp for rarely using him, he said that with Lennon playing so well it wouldn't have made sense to play him ahead of Lennon.

You seem to have a real problem with VDV for what you perceive as him being a primadonna, GK. He seems to be very humble when I hear him speak. I definitely don't get that from Defoe. You have no idea why he's going down the tunnel. I would say it's just as likely he's having his hamstring checked because obviously he's not fit enough to play for 90 minutes. Perhaps we should employ logic here. He has a reputation for being extremely injury prone and has picked up quite a few related and recurring injuries since joining us. He has struggled to finish 90 minutes in most games. Does it not make logical sense that he's going down the tunnel for medical reasons? Considering he's being patted on the back by staff today I highly doubt he's pouting as you're insinuating.

I really don't want this to turn into another ruined thread. Hopefully we can discuss this like adults, but I doubt it. If you hate VDV for being a primadonna, why are you supporting Defoe based on what I've just said?

[Gareth Keown]

you know Willsy, I really expect more from you - 1 of the few ppl that statement would apply to from me here...of those last Spurs 34 games, how many did he play in (out for months thru injury) and how many did he even start in ??....... see how a selective use of stats can leave a skewed perception...

1) no striker is guaranteed to score from any given chance.... remember the Bent miss that Arry said his wife cudda scored ??...... the fact is ANY striker can only convert a % of efforts, and they dont come at a uniform-rate.... remember the 2 wonder-strikes by the same Defoe just 1 game ago ??.... do you ??...

Defoe nowadays plays as a very good 2nd-striker, and works best with Pav as the primary-striker who stays around the box.... he is NOT a lone-striker or even a primary-striker.... he lacks the size,power,height to do so....

2) today Defoe played as a very isolated lone-striker, with his 'supporting-forward' Vaart taking it easy with his feet up deep into midfield stealing the ball from players 2yds away just so that he could hit a pass they could just as easily have hit.... its cheap, its lazy, and it gives him a free-ride at Defoe's expense...

you say that you never clamoured for Defoe-Vaart but then again I think you showed excitement at this pairing in a previous post just  before the game started.... MOST of the 'experts' no doubt were drooling over this 'sumptious' pairing of flair, creativity and goal-threat....before the game.

3) as for my criticism of Vaart walking away down the tunnel after being rightly subbed.... I'm afraid the 'rub-down' argument is ludicrous... I was commenting mainly at the hypocrisy of Spurs fans turning a blind-eye to this when another plarer eg. Chimbonda (or dare I say Jenas) would have been crucified at the lack of respect for the team and his fellow teammates....

[Gareth Keown]

ASF.... if like Defoe you see an inferior player for this Spurs team (in respect to available viable tactics) repeatredly playing ahead of your inclusion week in week out.... as Pav does too..... then both players will off course consider their future and make it known that they may look elsewhere....

as much as a signal to the manager... who may be taking the easy option (with fans loving Vaart irrespective of tactical problems from his inclusion) to remain popular with the unsophisticated fanbase..... that theyre not happy with that and he better think again....

Bentley's case was entirely different, as he knew was never gonna be better than Lennon in a straight choice between the 2, both individually or tactically..... and probably didnt mind as much with just collecting his salary and combing his lovely hair...

[WilsonJet]

Isn't a player's relative fitness or lack thereof a factor of his value? Obviously, I'm aware that Defoe didn't play in all of those games, but it doesn't matter because he got paid for all of them. His job is to score goals - and 3 from 34 isn't cost-effective no matter how you cut it. It burns me up because I love the guy and I expect SO MUCH MORE from him.

You're attacking van der Vaart not just because of his performance today, but also because you can't say a word against Modric. I don't think we're "turning a blind eye" to a walk down the tunnel because there is nothing even worth commenting on. The man loves the club, loves being here, thanked the fans, got his pat on the back and is going to the locker room to lick his wounds. He had a bad game -- better luck next time. But, he's still our leading scorer -- and I don' think it takes a genius to figure out that your leading scorer should probably be on the field until proven otherwise....like today.

And as far as the pairing of the two, I was excited because I enjoy watching both players not because I was convinced that the partnership would work. (I said so -- read the thread again) You were absolutely right about that. I give credit when credit is due. And as far as Jermain Defoe goes...no credit is due -- not this season. The man is not producing, so I'm not real thrilled about a self-serving goal celebration that never came to fruition. The ESPN commentators even said afterwards, "time for the highlights -- I expect we'll be seeing a lot of Jermain Defoe misses". How utterly embarrassing.

[aspursfan]

who may be taking the easy option (with fans loving Vaart irrespective of tactical problems from his inclusion) to remain popular with the unsophisticated fanbase

Redknapp must be terrified of upsetting these fans you think so lowly of. You seem to feel that Redknapp picks VDV because he has to, and not because he feels he's vital even when he's not fully fit.

He signed William Gallas. I was one of very few voices supporting this decision on forums when that happened. If he's under so much pressure to appease the supporters who are so beneath you, why would he do something so wise yet unpopular?

I think you're making far too many assumptions to support your opinions. You're certainly entitled to not like certain players, but Van der vaart doesn't pick the team or the formation. We signed him for 8M which is peanuts in comparison to other transfers and he's scored some important goals. It's as if you blame him for our team not playing the way you want to see.