| (http://e2.365dm.com/football/badges/64/411.png) | QPR | ____ | v | ____ | Tottenham | (http://www.spursnetwork.com/images/matches/badges/tottenham.png) |
Win this one, which won't be easy, and I really will start to believe !!
I am sure that we would've won if we had worn a different kit, That 2 tone effort is terrible. Even my sons dont want it! :nope:
I did say that this match wouldn't be easy. In fact I fear the lower clubs more than the top clubs. The good news is that Ars*nal are losing by 2 goals. Everton drew, Liverpool lost and only Chelsea and United got the wrong results. At least we are a point behind Chelsea.
I did say that this match wouldn't be easy. In fact I fear the lower clubs more than the top clubs. The good news is that Ars*nal are losing by 2 goals. Everton drew, Liverpool lost and only Chelsea and United got the wrong results. At least we are a point behind Chelsea.
That still dosen't disguise the fact that we were poor tactically yesterday and could and probably should of had 3 points and kept the pressure on Chelski !!!
:(
I did say that this match wouldn't be easy. In fact I fear the lower clubs more than the top clubs. The good news is that Ars*nal are losing by 2 goals. Everton drew, Liverpool lost and only Chelsea and United got the wrong results. At least we are a point behind Chelsea.
That still dosen't disguise the fact that we were poor tactically yesterday and could and probably should of had 3 points and kept the pressure on Chelski !!!
:(
The pressure is still on Chelsea. Yes, a poor result but not a defeat and we are still in a healthy position. I still say we will be in the top 4.
I did say that this match wouldn't be easy. In fact I fear the lower clubs more than the top clubs. The good news is that Ars*nal are losing by 2 goals. Everton drew, Liverpool lost and only Chelsea and United got the wrong results. At least we are a point behind Chelsea.
That still dosen't disguise the fact that we were poor tactically yesterday and could and probably should of had 3 points and kept the pressure on Chelski !!!
:(
The pressure is still on Chelsea. Yes, a poor result but not a defeat and we are still in a healthy position. I still say we will be in the top 4.
I agree I think we will still finish top 4 but we are doing the usual Spurs thing and making it difficult for ourselves. I really thought AVb was starting to show something that I didn't think he was but once again I have doubts starting to resurface !!!
:-\
I did say that this match wouldn't be easy. In fact I fear the lower clubs more than the top clubs. The good news is that Ars*nal are losing by 2 goals. Everton drew, Liverpool lost and only Chelsea and United got the wrong results. At least we are a point behind Chelsea.
That still dosen't disguise the fact that we were poor tactically yesterday and could and probably should of had 3 points and kept the pressure on Chelski !!!
:(
The pressure is still on Chelsea. Yes, a poor result but not a defeat and we are still in a healthy position. I still say we will be in the top 4.
I agree I think we will still finish top 4 but we are doing the usual Spurs thing and making it difficult for ourselves. I really thought AVb was starting to show something that I didn't think he was but once again I have doubts starting to resurface !!!
:-\
Let us be fair; this is his first season and only halfway through it. As I've often pointed out on here Alex Ferguson was close to getting the sack and he had been a lot longer at United than AVB has been at Spurs when he was close to being sacked. I bet the United fans - at the time - didn't get their wish for Alex to be sacked.
Surely your not comparing AVB to SAF !!! 8D [/color]Actually I am not. If you compare like with like (at the same points of their careers) then AVB is a lot further out front.
AVB is actually doing alot better than I was expecting and I will gladly admit it !! I have also said I hope that he proves me wrong on more than one occasion BUT at times he says some strange things and sometimes for a tactical genius (so called by many) he makes some strange desicions and substitutions. It is frustrating as for the last few games he seemed to have got things in order and sorted then yesterday well lets himself down ... at least we didn't lose !!!!
:nods:
Quote from: ugs link=topic=3116.msg77551#msg77551
[color=navySurely your not comparing AVB to SAF !!! 8D [/color]Actually I am not. If you compare like with like (at the same points of their careers) then AVB is a lot further out front.
QuoteAVB is actually doing alot better than I was expecting and I will gladly admit it !! I have also said I hope that he proves me wrong on more than one occasion BUT at times he says some strange things and sometimes for a tactical genius (so called by many) he makes some strange desicions and substitutions. It is frustrating as for the last few games he seemed to have got things in order and sorted then yesterday well lets himself down ... at least we didn't lose !!!!
:nods:
Are they strange decisions? He has a lot more information at his fingers than we/ or you do. Maybe if he let you into his confidence they might not seem so strange. Ask yourself this; why has he got the job and not you of running Spurs?
Because I'm a newsagent and didn't bother applying for the Spurs job !!!
In my opinion I still think that he made some poor desicions yesterday and hopefully he will learn from that but I genuinely believe that the job he has done so far would lead us to expect a victory against QPR !!
:)
Because I'm a newsagent and didn't bother applying for the Spurs job !!!Well, if you did you could have gone up in the world…. Or down ( more likely).
In my opinion I still think that he made some poor desicions yesterday and hopefully he will learn from that but I genuinely believe that the job he has done so far would lead us to expect a victory against QPR !!
:)
I'm not surprised we didn't win. Redknapp knows how to motivate his players and it was evident yesterday - QPR were playing for their lives. I bet they'll get some sweeter results.
Bale and Lennon? They were nullified by QPR's defence.
All in all I would say that QPR are not a bad team, they simply had a crap manager.
I agree I think we will still finish top 4 but we are doing the usual Spurs thing and making it difficult for ourselves. I really thought AVb was starting to show something that I didn't think he was but once again I have doubts starting to resurface !!!
:-\
Surely your not comparing AVB to SAF !!! 8D
Thank you Mr Finch for being honest and evaluating things without a pair of Spurs tinted glasses on ! I also appreiate what others are saying that we will have difficult matches and results will occaisonally go against us, but it was the manner that we played and seem to almost resign ourselves to the fact we were not going to score or win that worries me.
People need to be a bit more honest with themselves rather than just blindly defending everything and everyone Spurs !!! Maybe this only comes with age and watching Spurs for over 40 years or maybe our expectations are higher....... I don't know but it's nice to hear another sane voice in the crowd !!!!
:up:
Why is it that when someone makes a comment that Voice and Joolz disagree with that you insist on, not only calling them doom and gloomers but you resort to being bloody insulting.
:tickedoff: :tickedoff: :tickedoff:
As for the subs, Ade and Lennon were having stinkers, so what else could he have done ?? He is doing the best he can with what we have.We "lost" one substitution with Sandro's injury anyway.
As for the subs, Ade and Lennon were having stinkers, so what else could he have done ?? He is doing the best he can with what we have.We "lost" one substitution with Sandro's injury anyway.
Joolz,
I don't care about Ars*nal or Liverpool losing, my only concern is that we maintain our position and beat teams like QPR and their ilk languishing in the relegation zone. You would have to be somewhat naive if you think that we will not lose a game between now and the end of the season, I however am a realist, and do fully expect to lose some games, but not dropping points against sides that we should be beating.
>:( >:( >:(
Joolz, My reference to you was because you are the one who constantly refers to people who dare to disagree with you as being Doom and Gloomers and Voice who becomes insulting.
:nods: :nods: :nods: :nods: [size=78%] [/size]
What makes them strong Clubs Voice? I will tell you, it is because they have the ability and wherewithal to beat Clubs like QPR. Maybe you should start fearing them because if we cannot break down teams like QPR, what will happen when we play strong Clubs such as Man U, City and Chelsea, I will tell you, they will tear our defence apart and that is what worries me, because not only can they defend but they attack and finish with venom, and Voice please don't harp on that we have already beaten United, let me remind you "One Swallow does not a Summer make", or should I say "One result does not a Season make", or we have injuries, we have lost to Chelski, Arse, and City quite comprehensibly, it is not so much the result, but the manner in which we lose that concerns me, we can all make excuses for the team, which we invariably do, but there comes a time when we have to be brutally honest in our assessments if we are to be considered as real contenders for a top 4 position, and not be afraid to do so, that is not being a "Doom and Gloomer" its called being realistic. Lets not adopt the "We will be right" attitude.
:nope: :nope: :nope:
What makes them strong Clubs Voice? I will tell you, it is because they have the ability and wherewithal to beat Clubs like QPR. Maybe you should start fearing them because if we cannot break down teams like QPR, what will happen when we play strong Clubs such as Man U, City and Chelsea, I will tell you, they will tear our defence apart and that is what worries me, because not only can they defend but they attack and finish with venom, and Voice please don't harp on that we have already beaten United, let me remind you "One Swallow does not a Summer make", or should I say "One result does not a Season make", or we have injuries, we have lost to Chelski, Arse, and City quite comprehensibly, it is not so much the result, but the manner in which we lose that concerns me, we can all make excuses for the team, which we invariably do, but there comes a time when we have to be brutally honest in our assessments if we are to be considered as real contenders for a top 4 position, and not be afraid to do so, that is not being a "Doom and Gloomer" its called being realistic. Lets not adopt the "We will be right" attitude.
:nope: :nope: :nope:
May I add that it's somewhat easier to beat a stronger team who don't defend with ten men in their box. Teams that play attacking football are far more vulnerable at the back. Take Brazil, they have always been a good attacking team but have conceded quite a bit as well.
I'm not saying bus-parking teams cannot be beaten with good players and great tactics, but as Voice said, quite often these weaker teams manage to surprise big boys. Strong team keeps attacking and attacking, they get tired and nervous because they are expected to win whereas the weaker team is quite happy not to concede and who knows, one good counter attack and the tables will have turned.
And one more thing - (yes, I've said before) - QPR are by no means a bad team, they simply had one of the worst managers of the football league system. They have decent players who are more than able to change a game.
I do not dispute what you say RSS61, what annoys me is that some of the people who subscribe to this forum seem either unable or incapable of accepting that at the moment we are not, as much as I wish and want us to be, the simple fact is we aren't. You are quite right we are not a million miles away, but we are not there yet. I appreciate your support thankyou.
:up: :up: :up:
Voice,
They do not continually beat Top teams, every now and then yes they do, it is more by luck than judgement. My point is this, if we are going to be considered as legitimate contenders for the title and CL we cannot afford to be dropping points to teams like QPR, so far this season we have dropped points to:-
Newcastle (A) 3pts, West Brom (H) 2 pts, Norwich (H) 2pts, Chelsea (H) 3 pts, Wigan (H) 3pts, Man City (A) 3pts, Ars*nal (A) 3 pts, Everton (A) 3pts, Stoke (H) 2 pts, QPR (A) 2pts
a total of 26 points,
12 pts of which have been dropped to teams that are in the bottom half of the league,
7 pts of which have been dropped at Home to teams that are in the bottom half of the league,
Why have we dropped them, because the opposition have parked the Bus, and we have been unable to break them down, I can put my hand on my heart and say that not one of those teams that took pts off of us that are in the bottom half outplayed us or had more possession than us, and deserved them, but because of our inability to break them down, they did. That VOICE is my point, had we have got half of those pts, we would be 5 pts clear of Chelsea, not one point behind, and we would be 9 points clear of the Team in 5th spot, instead of which we are now looking over our shoulder, because we are only 3 pts clear of 5th, with, I hasten to add, a lot of hard games against some very dangerous attacking teams coming up.
That is my point.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
You are 100% correct, and for us to be contenders and not buy, we have GOT to learn how to break these defensive teams down and beat them, I don't care if it is only 1-0, but we have to learn, and the onus falls fairly and squarely on AVB's shoulders, HE IS THE SENIOR COACH, and the buck stops with him and his fellow coaches END OF .
:nods: :nods:
You are 100% correct, and for us to be contenders and not buy, we have GOT to learn how to break these defensive teams down and beat them, I don't care if it is only 1-0, but we have to learn, and the onus falls fairly and squarely on AVB's shoulders, HE IS THE SENIOR COACH, and the buck stops with him and his fellow coaches END OF .
:nods: :nods:
I will gladly agree with you on this one 100% for a change and disagree with VOICE on his comments that smaller clubs do continually beat top teams. It is not the case.
Yes, the buck stops with AVB as head coach, but can we blame him for everything? I don't think so. Bale & Lennon went AWOL at Loftus road and as I have already mentioned, we were unlucky not to score at least one. Having said that, I will also agree that we have dropped too many points to lower teams so far and true enough, even half those dropped 19 points (Wigan, Norwich and Stoke being the worse ones) would have put us well up there above Chelsea. :ohyeah:
I will put my "No Sh*t Sherlock "hat on again and repeat that if we do not sign a recognise gooalscorer and possibly creative midfielder in this window as RSS61 mentions, we are likely to continue in the same vein for the rest of the season, unless Ade suddendly wakes up when he returns and starts banging them in :nope:.
I have posted an article, written by someone else, in the "AVB return to Chelsea thread" which highlights a few good points about AVB's amongst other things. Whilst I do not agree with everthing there, I think it paints a very true picture of his performance and that of the club so far . :up:
Voice,
They do not continually beat Top teams, every now and then yes they do, it is more by luck than judgement. My point is this, if we are going to be considered as legitimate contenders for the title and CL we cannot afford to be dropping points to teams like QPR, so far this season we have dropped points to:-
Newcastle (A) 3pts, West Brom (H) 2 pts, Norwich (H) 2pts, Chelsea (H) 3 pts, Wigan (H) 3pts, Man City (A) 3pts, Ars*nal (A) 3 pts, Everton (A) 3pts, Stoke (H) 2 pts, QPR (A) 2pts
a total of 26 points,
12 pts of which have been dropped to teams that are in the bottom half of the league,
7 pts of which have been dropped at Home to teams that are in the bottom half of the league,
Why have we dropped them, because the opposition have parked the Bus, and we have been unable to break them down, I can put my hand on my heart and say that not one of those teams that took pts off of us that are in the bottom half outplayed us or had more possession than us, and deserved them, but because of our inability to break them down, they did. That VOICE is my point, had we have got half of those pts, we would be 5 pts clear of Chelsea, not one point behind, and we would be 9 points clear of the Team in 5th spot, instead of which we are now looking over our shoulder, because we are only 3 pts clear of 5th, with, I hasten to add, a lot of hard games against some very dangerous attacking teams coming up.
That is my point.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
Voice, I don't recall seeing QPR throwing caution to the wind on Saturday, or did I miss something, maybe I was watching a different game.
:nope: :nope:
You are 100% correct, and for us to be contenders and not buy, we have GOT to learn how to break these defensive teams down and beat them, I don't care if it is only 1-0, but we have to learn, and the onus falls fairly and squarely on AVB's shoulders, HE IS THE SENIOR COACH, and the buck stops with him and his fellow coaches END OF .
:nods: :nods:
I will gladly agree with you on this one 100% for a change and disagree with VOICE on his comments that smaller clubs do continually beat top teams. It is not the case.
Yes, the buck stops with AVB as head coach, but can we blame him for everything? I don't think so. Bale & Lennon went AWOL at Loftus road and as I have already mentioned, we were unlucky not to score at least one. Having said that, I will also agree that we have dropped too many points to lower teams so far and true enough, even half those dropped 19 points (Wigan, Norwich and Stoke being the worse ones) would have put us well up there above Chelsea. :ohyeah:
I will put my "No Sh*t Sherlock "hat on again and repeat that if we do not sign a recognise gooalscorer and possibly creative midfielder in this window as RSS61 mentions, we are likely to continue in the same vein for the rest of the season, unless Ade suddendly wakes up when he returns and starts banging them in :nope:.
I have posted an article, written by someone else, in the "AVB return to Chelsea thread" which highlights a few good points about AVB's amongst other things. Whilst I do not agree with everthing there, I think it paints a very true picture of his performance and that of the club so far . :up:
When we won the double, we did it by outscoring most of the opposition. It worked then, and it works now. Just look at Man U. To do that we need a top striker, and someone else creative to help Bale and Lennon supply them, and chip in with some goals, like Frank Lampard has done for the last 10 years. Simples.
I will gladly agree with you on this one 100% for a change and disagree with VOICE on his comments that smaller clubs do continually beat top teams. It is not the case.
I don't think I said "continually"? Clubs that struggle have over the years beaten championship winning teams.
I don't think I said "continually"? Clubs that struggle have over the years beaten championship winning teams.
Sorry if I have got the continually wrong. I picked it up from PF post
Joolz,
I don't care about Ars*nal or Liverpool losing, my only concern is that we maintain our position and beat teams like QPR and their ilk languishing in the relegation zone. You would have to be somewhat naive if you think that we will not lose a game between now and the end of the season, I however am a realist, and do fully expect to lose some games, but not dropping points against sides that we should be beating.
>:( >:( >:(
Voice,
Your post regarding QPR improving, I neither know or care, the only time I watch them play is when Spurs play them, and if Sat game was anything to go by, they need to improve a hell of a lot if they are to avoid relegation.
Thankyou for your history lesson, I was perfectly aware that Newcastle beat us at home, I was actually at the game with my late Father and Grand-father, that season we lost a total of 7 games out of 42, 3 at home and 4 away, dropping a total of 18 points for the season, we managed a total of 66 pts equalling Ars*nals 1930-31 record.
The season we were relegated 1976-77, Liverpool won the League, and on 9th Mar 1977 we beat them 1-0 at the Lane, one of only 12 wins for the season. I too can give further examples should you require them as I also have quite a few books on the subject, and as for my knowledge of football and Spurs, I would back it against most peoples, you are not the only knowledge-able person who contributes to this forum.
As regards AVB, I am sick of the constant comparisons with the Rednosed Scots Twat, you are constantly using that. Yes on Sat Lennon and Bale went AWOL, but it is ultimately the responsibility of the coach and his panel to change things as and when it is required, and too often they haven't been able to do it. It is quite evident that they do not seem to have a Plan B or Plan C when teams park the bus. Most of the top coaches are able to, not all the time, but most times. This is mean't as a constructive criticism not a destructive one. Other than that I think he is doing a pretty good job, I don't think I will ever become his biggest fan.
:up: :up:
RSS61, The point I was trying to make, was that most of the Top Teams are well aware that whoever they play, whether they are teams that are struggling, or mid-table, are going to "Park the Bus" and plan for it, to try and break down that "blanket defence" right from the kick-off, and as has been shown quite often, our coaches don't seem to. We as supporters know that right from the kick-off certain teams are going to "Park the Bus", we expect it, so why is it that our coaches haven't planned for it, that is what I am asking! I realise that we do not necessarily have the players but surely, with a little bit of fore-thought plans can be put in place, this is what they(the coaches) is it not or have I missed something? ::) ::) ::)
That is exactly what I am asking, if it is the fault of the players then we have some serious problems which need to be addressed very quickly, otherwise all the good work that has been done will very quickly dissipate. Would you not agree?
:( :(
Looking at your above posts (PF & RSS). I would certainly agree that our players are to blame in the QPR draw, namely Lennon & Bale well, well below par on that day. Complacency perhaps?
As far as breaking down defenses when the opposition team has parked the bus, It isn't quite as easy as that. Take Barca v Chelsea in the CL final as an exemple. One, if not the best, team in Europe failing miserably.
I have no idea what the answer is but as long as there are teams prepared to put 11 men behind the ball, it will remain difficult for any team to score wether they have a plan A, B or C.
As someone pointed out the other day, it is often easier to score against an attacking team.
Joolz,
I don't care about Ars*nal or Liverpool losing, my only concern is that we maintain our position and beat teams like QPR and their ilk languishing in the relegation zone. You would have to be somewhat naive if you think that we will not lose a game between now and the end of the season, I however am a realist, and do fully expect to lose some games, but not dropping points against sides that we should be beating.
>:( >:( >:(
I would like to thank and congratulate Southampton for the superb come back to take 2 points away from Chelsea, the third time they fail to win AT THE BRIDGE!! This shows that our earlier argument on how fragile we all are and how strong the bottom teams can be against the top teams in the fight to avoid relegation.
The gap has increased yes, but by only one point! All we need now is a draw between Chelsea and Ars*nal at the week-end and a win for us at the Lane. :up:
Voice,
Your post regarding QPR improving, I neither know or care, the only time I watch them play is when Spurs play them, and if Sat game was anything to go by, they need to improve a hell of a lot if they are to avoid relegation.
Thankyou for your history lesson, I was perfectly aware that Newcastle beat us at home, I was actually at the game with my late Father and Grand-father, that season we lost a total of 7 games out of 42, 3 at home and 4 away, dropping a total of 18 points for the season, we managed a total of 66 pts equalling Ars*nals 1930-31 record.
The season we were relegated 1976-77, Liverpool won the League, and on 9th Mar 1977 we beat them 1-0 at the Lane, one of only 12 wins for the season. I too can give further examples should you require them as I also have quite a few books on the subject, and as for my knowledge of football and Spurs, I would back it against most peoples, you are not the only knowledge-able person who contributes to this forum.
As regards AVB, I am sick of the constant comparisons with the Rednosed Scots Twat, you are constantly using that. Yes on Sat Lennon and Bale went AWOL, but it is ultimately the responsibility of the coach and his panel to change things as and when it is required, and too often they haven't been able to do it. It is quite evident that they do not seem to have a Plan B or Plan C when teams park the bus. Most of the top coaches are able to, not all the time, but most times. This is mean't as a constructive criticism not a destructive one. Other than that I think he is doing a pretty good job, I don't think I will ever become his biggest fan.
:up: :up:
That is exactly what I am asking, if it is the fault of the players then we have some serious problems which need to be addressed very quickly, otherwise all the good work that has been done will very quickly dissipate. Would you not agree?
:( :(
That is exactly what I am asking, if it is the fault of the players then we have some serious problems which need to be addressed very quickly, otherwise all the good work that has been done will very quickly dissipate. Would you not agree?
:( :(
I've just been reading a biography of Alf Ramsey called "Sir Alf" and the book was saying that when Spurs won the league in 190/51 there were times when players were having off days. I've even read that Bill Nicholson was criticised for making bad decisions. What I am trying to say is that all managers, all teams have games like you have described. What is important is the end result; how Spurs end up. At this moment in time I have faith that AVB will deliver. If he doesn't then the time will come to criticise.
Voice,
I am not meaning to be critical of AVB, I am just questioning some of his decisions, surely as a fanatical Spurs person, I am entitled to do that, I am also very critical of some of the players and their decisions, probably more so than AVB, again that is my right, and I most certainly will continue to do so, however, you can rest assured that when Spurs are criticised by supporters of other teams, I am very passionate in my support. I as a Spurs supporter am entitled to criticise them, but whoebetide anyone else who dares to.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
Voice,
The one thing AVB does not have is years of experience either as a manager, and definitely not as a player, he has never played Professional football at any level, so I suggest before making such statements you get your facts right, and because you have put your trust in him does not mean everyone else has to, I have my own opinions to which I am entitled.
I still don't like him, and as I have said previously, I probably never will, even if he wins 10 PL titles and 10 CL titles. That does not mean that my evaluations of him are more biased or distorted than if I were a fan, and what gives you the right to say that "You are sure that I would like nothing better than for him to fail and see him replaced by someone I value more highly". Are you now a mind-reader? Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. How the bloody hell do you know what I would or wouldn't like, and I suggest that you keep such opinions to yourself.
>:( >:( >:(
I am not covering for Voice here, I know that AVB has very litlle experience in management and none as a professional player.
In any event, It is not a question of liking or not liking him. Realistically, none of us know him, so how can we "like" him or "dislike him". He is OK, he comes across well and if he succeeds with us, all well and good and there won't be any complaints as far as I am concerned. Even if he won 10 EPL titles and 10CL, I wouldn't suddenly "fall in love" with him, I would just look at him as one of the greatest managers in the history of Tottenham football. That's all.
I wasn't mad on Harry either, in fact he opened his gob too much and I didn't like it and he cared too much about his own ego. We have a different character in AVB. He shows a great passion for the game and for us, he has a point to prove and I do believe that he has our interests at heart. In fact his results so far in relation to his experience, or lack of, shows a brain that Harry with 40 years as a player and manager didn't have, imo.
But that's just my opinion! :up: