QPR v Tottenham

[spursjoolz]

 

[Glenn R]

Joolz,
   I don't care about Ars*nal or Liverpool losing, my only concern is that we maintain our position and beat teams like QPR and their ilk languishing in the relegation zone. You would have to be somewhat naive if you think that we will not lose a game between now and the end of the season, I however am a realist, and do fully expect to lose some games, but not dropping points against sides that we should be beating.

 

I would like to thank and congratulate Southampton for the superb come back to take 2 points away from Chelsea, the third time they fail to win  AT THE BRIDGE!!  This shows that our earlier argument on how fragile we all are and how strong the bottom teams can be against the top teams in the fight to avoid relegation.

The gap has increased yes, but by only one point!  All we need now is a draw between Chelsea and Ars*nal at the week-end and a win for us at the Lane.   

A brilliant result for Spurs. We mustn't forget that they also held Ars*nal to a draw. We are on equal games with them 2 pts above us.

[Glenn R]

Voice,
      Your post regarding QPR improving, I neither know or care, the only time I watch them play is when Spurs play them, and if Sat game was anything to go by, they need to improve a hell of a lot if they are to avoid relegation.
      Thankyou for your history lesson, I was perfectly aware that Newcastle beat us at home, I was actually at the game with my late Father and Grand-father, that season we lost a total of 7 games out of 42, 3 at home and 4 away, dropping a total of 18 points for the season, we managed a total of 66 pts  equalling Ars*nals 1930-31 record.   
      The season we were relegated 1976-77, Liverpool won the League, and on 9th Mar 1977 we beat them 1-0 at the Lane, one of only 12 wins for the season. I too can give further examples should you require them as I also have quite a few books on the subject, and as for my knowledge of football and Spurs, I would back it against most peoples, you are not the only knowledge-able person who contributes to this forum.
        As regards AVB, I am sick of the constant comparisons with the Rednosed Scots Twat, you are constantly using that. Yes on Sat Lennon and Bale went AWOL, but it is ultimately the responsibility of the coach and his panel to change things as and when it is required, and too often they haven't been able to do it. It is quite evident that they do not seem to have a Plan B or Plan C when teams park the bus. Most of the top coaches are able to, not all the time, but most times. This is mean't as a constructive criticism not a destructive one. Other than that I think he is doing a pretty good job, I don't think I will ever become his biggest fan.


 

I appreciate what you are saying, however, all managers have problems and what I am saying that AVB is new in his job and considering new players coming in, old ones going and he is half way through a season he isn’t doing too bad.

The only reason I keep mentioning AF is because you keep criticising AVB but if you compare AVB with AF our manager is in a better position that is all.

[Glenn R]

That is exactly what I am asking, if it is the fault of the players then we have some serious problems which need to be addressed very quickly, otherwise all the good work that has been done will very quickly dissipate. Would you not agree?


 

I've just been reading a biography of Alf Ramsey called "Sir Alf" and the book was saying that when Spurs won the league in 190/51 there were times when players were having off days. I've even read that Bill Nicholson was criticised for making bad decisions. What I am trying to say is that all managers, all teams have games like you have described. What is important is the end result; how Spurs end up. At this moment in time I have faith that AVB will deliver. If he doesn't then the time will come to criticise.

[RSS61]

That is exactly what I am asking, if it is the fault of the players then we have some serious problems which need to be addressed very quickly, otherwise all the good work that has been done will very quickly dissipate. Would you not agree?


 

I've just been reading a biography of Alf Ramsey called "Sir Alf" and the book was saying that when Spurs won the league in 190/51 there were times when players were having off days. I've even read that Bill Nicholson was criticised for making bad decisions. What I am trying to say is that all managers, all teams have games like you have described. What is important is the end result; how Spurs end up. At this moment in time I have faith that AVB will deliver. If he doesn't then the time will come to criticise.

Absolutely right. When we won the double, we won 31 games and smashed most teams out of sight, but we still got beaten 7 times, some of them were lower teams, so as you say all teams have bad days, its the consistency over 38 games that counts.
Just look at Ars*nal over last 16 years. No matter how bad they seem at times they are still our main threat for top 4.

[Paul Finch]

Voice,
     I am not meaning to be critical of AVB, I am just questioning some of his decisions, surely as a fanatical Spurs person, I am entitled to do that, I am also very critical of some of the players and their decisions, probably more so than AVB, again that is my right, and I most certainly will continue to do so, however, you can rest assured that when Spurs are criticised by supporters of other teams, I am very passionate in my support. I as a Spurs supporter am entitled to criticise them, but whoebetide anyone else who dares to.


 

[Glenn R]

Voice,
     I am not meaning to be critical of AVB, I am just questioning some of his decisions, surely as a fanatical Spurs person, I am entitled to do that, I am also very critical of some of the players and their decisions, probably more so than AVB, again that is my right, and I most certainly will continue to do so, however, you can rest assured that when Spurs are criticised by supporters of other teams, I am very passionate in my support. I as a Spurs supporter am entitled to criticise them, but whoebetide anyone else who dares to.


 

There is nothing wrong with being passionate, as I am also passionate. And there is nothing wrong with being critical. The trouble is with all that we don’t have all the fact at our finger tips; for instance players not playing well or the manager making seemingly bad decisions. What he has over us is things we don’t know, years of experience as a player and manager. So when we are critical we must bear this all in mind. Also; as I have pointed out above that this is his first season in charge and only 6 months in. He has had to deal with players going and players coming. We are also in 4th position. So when we are being critical we must bear all these facts in mind when drawing our conclusions. Of course things would change if we were struggling or near the bottom, but we are not, we are in a healthy position.

I personally think – taking everything I said above – that he is doing a good job and I am happy with Spurs progress under him.
I welcome your criticism and passion; all I am saying is that we must bear in mind certain factors when assessing him. On top of that there were three members on here (there might have been more) who were very critical of him. You, yourself, said you didn’t like him. So when you make your passionate and critical evaluation these factors are also in your thinking; thus giving you a biased and distorted view. I am sure you would love nothing better if he failed and was replaced with somebody who you value highly.

[Paul Finch]

Voice,
      The one thing AVB does not have is years of experience either as a manager, and definitely not as a player, he has never played Professional football at any level, so I suggest before making such statements you get your facts right, and because you have put your trust in him does not mean everyone else has to, I have my own opinions to which I am entitled.
      I still don't like him, and as I have said previously, I probably never will, even if he wins 10 PL titles and 10 CL titles. That does not mean that my evaluations of him are more biased or distorted than if I were a fan, and what gives you the right to say that "You are sure that I would like nothing better than for him to fail and see him replaced by someone I value more highly". Are you now a mind-reader? Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. How the bloody hell do you know what I would or wouldn't like, and I suggest that you keep such opinions to yourself.


 

[spursjoolz]

I am not covering for Voice here, I know that AVB has very litlle experience in management and none as a professional player.

In any event, It is not a question of liking or not liking him. Realistically, none of us know him, so how can we "like" him or "dislike him". He is OK, he comes across well and if he succeeds with us, all well and good and there won't be any complaints as far as I am concerned. Even if he won 10 EPL titles and 10CL,  I wouldn't suddenly "fall in love" with him, I would just look at him as one of the greatest managers in the history of Tottenham football. That's all.

I wasn't mad on Harry either, in fact he opened his gob too much and I didn't like it and he cared too much about his own ego.  We have a different character in AVB. He shows a great passion for the game and for us, he has a point to prove and I do believe that he has our interests at heart. In fact his results so far in relation to his experience, or lack of, shows a brain that Harry with 40 years as a player and manager didn't have,  imo. 

But that's just my opinion!

[Glenn R]

Voice,
      The one thing AVB does not have is years of experience either as a manager, and definitely not as a player, he has never played Professional football at any level, so I suggest before making such statements you get your facts right, and because you have put your trust in him does not mean everyone else has to, I have my own opinions to which I am entitled.
      I still don't like him, and as I have said previously, I probably never will, even if he wins 10 PL titles and 10 CL titles. That does not mean that my evaluations of him are more biased or distorted than if I were a fan, and what gives you the right to say that "You are sure that I would like nothing better than for him to fail and see him replaced by someone I value more highly". Are you now a mind-reader? Your arrogance never ceases to amaze me. How the bloody hell do you know what I would or wouldn't like, and I suggest that you keep such opinions to yourself.


 

I have just been reading a biography – a very good biography – on Alf Ramsey. When he took over Ipswich he had no experience but he went on to win the League Title. When he took over England he was criticised again and many wanted him sacked. His start wasn’t brilliant. But he stayed and as they say the rest is history.

You say “I put my trust in him”; not true. I am giving him the benefit of doubt. You could be right he could be totally crap but at this precise time we should support him. The only reason you can’t give him the benefit of doubt is because of your hostility towards him. I keep repeating myself but for your benefit I shall do so again. He is six months in a job, we are 4th, some players have left and some have come in. That isn’t bad. That is not me “trusting him” but looking at the evidence. The evidence shows us that we should back him until things change.

You don’t like him; that dictates how you think and what you say.

I am not a mind reader but going on what you said; you don’t like him so what I said stands.

[Glenn R]

I am not covering for Voice here, I know that AVB has very litlle experience in management and none as a professional player.

In any event, It is not a question of liking or not liking him. Realistically, none of us know him, so how can we "like" him or "dislike him". He is OK, he comes across well and if he succeeds with us, all well and good and there won't be any complaints as far as I am concerned. Even if he won 10 EPL titles and 10CL,  I wouldn't suddenly "fall in love" with him, I would just look at him as one of the greatest managers in the history of Tottenham football. That's all.

I wasn't mad on Harry either, in fact he opened his gob too much and I didn't like it and he cared too much about his own ego.  We have a different character in AVB. He shows a great passion for the game and for us, he has a point to prove and I do believe that he has our interests at heart. In fact his results so far in relation to his experience, or lack of, shows a brain that Harry with 40 years as a player and manager didn't have,  imo. 

But that's just my opinion!

And it is a good opinion; intelligent and fair. It is a pity others couldn't think as you do. Sadly some are driven by their hatred and ignorance so can't make rational judgements.

[RiffHard]

Okay, lads, we should put this discussion to bed now. We have a big game against Manchester United coming up and the QPR game is history now. Not to mention that this thread isn't really about our match against QPR anymore. So, lads, please move on to Tottenham Hotspur vs Manchester United match day chat thread. 

[spursjoolz]

Fair comment Riff