Do we really need Europa League or is it a neccessay Evil?

[Paul Finch]

        After playing EL games we lost to Liverpool (h), WBA (h), Newcastle (h), Stoke (h), Chelsea L.Cup Final and drew West Ham (h). Yes we did win a couple of games but, had we have won 3 of the 4 we lost we would be 1point clear of Manure in 4th position that is my point. Plus I think the reason we have had a form slump at the end of the season is because we have played so many games and we have had some injuries, which I guess shows that our squad isn't as strong as we thought it was. Just my opinion and as they say "If my Aunt had had Balls she would have been my Uncle". 

But did we lose those matches because the team wasn't good enough or was it was soon after the Europa matches? We may have lost but other teams who have had such fixtures after their Europa league matches, didn't have such problems.

     

   Voice,
           Every one of the games that I quoted was played on the Sunday after we had played a Europa League game this season, this is not the only season that it has happened, every season that we have played Europa League games(which are always played Thursdays) when we play PL games on  the next Sun(which is always the case, unless for some reason it is changed to the Mon), for some reason we always struggle and quite often lose them, in fact the commentators always seem to mention it!! 

What you say is true. But Chelsea and other teams managed it and won. So why are we having problems? Is it our players not being experienced enough or good enough? Wrong manager? Yes, it has affected us, but does that mean we should stop trying? I believe we can win it with the right team, right manager etc. Another point: we will probably finish 6th this season. If you consider our stadium capacity and other money we make, compared to the top 4 teams we are where we should be. When we achieved higher than that a lot had to do with luck and Spurs punching above their weight. Hopefully that will change with a new stadium.

Also; to attract top players we need European football, whether that be Champions league or Europa League football. We also need the extra revenue to help fund the building of a new stadium. So, yes you are right, but that doesn't mean next season or the season after will be the same. Remember Spurs motto. Audere est Facere ("To Dare Is to Do"). I am an optimist. We could have had the same argument before Bill Nicholson or even Arthur Rowe took over Spurs. They said Spurs could never win the league. Then they said we couldn't win the double. Then they.... you get my point. To Do is to Dare.

I will go along with that voice. Mr Levy and the fans want and need European football, for the revenue and to appease the fans. And as you rightly point out if we are to attract the best we need European football. And don’t forget that if we were lucky enough to win the trophy then the following season would mean Eureopan elite football, no matter where we finish in the league. And talking from a personal position, and as a season ticket holder, I enjoy going to watch Spurs European exploits. We were the first, as Don points out, and that is where we belong. European football for me, not matter what competition it is.

      Voice,
               The reason Chelsea/Man City/Man U and to a degree Arse--- have succeeded is largely due to the fact that they have spent enormous amounts of money in transfer fees and pay ridiculous wages to build squads that will be competitive in the CL. Levy absolutely refuses to pay ridiculous wages and you cannot blame him, although it does affect the quality of players that we can attract, and there-in lies the problem! 

            I have to disagree with you that we were punching above our weight when we qualified for the CL as was shown in our performances in the CL the following season, you do not beat the quality of opposition that we beat if you don't have a quality side or squad plus the style of football that we were playing under Harry Redknapp was fantastic(I am not re-opening the "Arry debate) and I must admit that at times this season under Poch we are starting to play in a style that does get the adrenalin flowing so hopefully he is allowed to continue the good work that he has started.   

[Glenn R]

  Voice,
               The reason Chelsea/Man City/Man U and to a degree Arse--- have succeeded is largely due to the fact that they have spent enormous amounts of money in transfer fees and pay ridiculous wages to build squads that will be competitive in the CL. Levy absolutely refuses to pay ridiculous wages and you cannot blame him, although it does affect the quality of players that we can attract, and there-in lies the problem! 

And one of the ways they got that money was having  bigger grounds than we have.
1.   Chelsea won the league with a capacity of 41,837
2.   City’s capacity is 48,000
3.   Ars*nal’s capacity is 60,272
4.   United’s 76,962
5.   Liverpool’s 45,276
6.   Spurs 36,000 plus
On top of that their extra revenue is better than ours. We finished where we should have. Granted those top clubs had millionaires throwing money at their clubs, but now the fair play rules have come in they can only spend what they take in. We finished we were deserved to be finished.

   

I have to disagree with you that we were punching above our weight when we qualified for the CL as was shown in our performances in the CL the following season, you do not beat the quality of opposition that we beat if you don't have a quality side or squad plus the style of football that we were playing under Harry Redknapp was fantastic(I am not re-opening the "Arry debate) and I must admit that at times this season under Poch we are starting to play in a style that does get the adrenalin flowing so hopefully he is allowed to continue the good work that he has started.   

When we finished 4th in 2009/10 City were having managerial problems so we replaced them.
When we finished 4th in 2011/12 Chelsea were also having problems and we replaced them.
We finished 4th in the history of the Premier league only twice.
Daniel Level in his article to the Spurs fans this month says “I know you would like somebody to throw money at the club, but that isn’t going to happen under the fair play rules.” Clubs have to live within their means. We are where we should be and only finished 4th because of the misfortunes of those that are regularly there misperforming.
Harry was lucky, but if I accepted that he was brilliant then he was so brilliant that when he left nobody was queuing up to take him on. Finally he got QPR. England didn’t want him, United didn’t want him and most of the other clubs didn’t want him. That should tell you something, on top of that he was fired from Spurs.
If we finish above 5th then it will be because of the misfortunes of others, or I should say those that are regularly in the top 4.

[RiffHard]

Jesus f**king Christ, enough of Harry Redknapp! 

[Jane]

  Voice,
               The reason Chelsea/Man City/Man U and to a degree Arse--- have succeeded is largely due to the fact that they have spent enormous amounts of money in transfer fees and pay ridiculous wages to build squads that will be competitive in the CL. Levy absolutely refuses to pay ridiculous wages and you cannot blame him, although it does affect the quality of players that we can attract, and there-in lies the problem! 

And one of the ways they got that money was having  bigger grounds than we have.
1.   Chelsea won the league with a capacity of 41,837
2.   City’s capacity is 48,000
3.   Ars*nal’s capacity is 60,272
4.   United’s 76,962
5.   Liverpool’s 45,276
6.   Spurs 36,000 plus
On top of that their extra revenue is better than ours. We finished where we should have. Granted those top clubs had millionaires throwing money at their clubs, but now the fair play rules have come in they can only spend what they take in. We finished we were deserved to be finished.

   

I have to disagree with you that we were punching above our weight when we qualified for the CL as was shown in our performances in the CL the following season, you do not beat the quality of opposition that we beat if you don't have a quality side or squad plus the style of football that we were playing under Harry Redknapp was fantastic(I am not re-opening the "Arry debate) and I must admit that at times this season under Poch we are starting to play in a style that does get the adrenalin flowing so hopefully he is allowed to continue the good work that he has started.   

When we finished 4th in 2009/10 City were having managerial problems so we replaced them.
When we finished 4th in 2011/12 Chelsea were also having problems and we replaced them.
We finished 4th in the history of the Premier league only twice.
Daniel Level in his article to the Spurs fans this month says “I know you would like somebody to throw money at the club, but that isn’t going to happen under the fair play rules.” Clubs have to live within their means. We are where we should be and only finished 4th because of the misfortunes of those that are regularly there misperforming.
Harry was lucky, but if I accepted he was brilliant he was so brilliant that when he left nobody was queuing up to take him on. Finally he got QPR. England didn’t want him, United didn’t want him and most of the other clubs didn’t want him. That should tell you something, on top of that he was fired from Spurs.
If we finish above 5th then it will be because of the misfortunes of others, or I should say those that are regularly in the top 4.

I liked Harry and I thought he did a good job at Spurs while he was there, but I have to agree with you here. He did what he was asked to do, but Levy and most of the fans knew his limitations. That is why he was only a stop gap for Spurs.

As for punching above our weight, I agree. I am a season ticket holder and if we compete with the top four on an even level then we need the same financial incentives as the other clubs have. And that includes a better stadium.

When I watched Spurs fight for 4th spot I knew, and most of the Spurs supporters I was in contact with knew, that if we were going to replace one of the golden boys then it would have been because one of them had slipped below par, and in the two cases that voice highlighted they did.

A 56,000 seater stadium will give us better revenue and a stronger position.

Jane x

[Jane]

Jesus f**king Christ, enough of Harry Redknapp! 

I don't understand? This forum is about Spurs, its history and everything that is connected with that history. Harry is part of that history, whether liked or not, therefore we should discuss him. I’ve never heard of a Spurs forum or anything Spurs where you can’t discuss somebody that was part of our history.

I thought this section was about Spurs “chat”? Aren’t we doing precisely that?

Jane x

[Spursx]

I agree with Voice and Jane. But I am also optimistic and am hoping that a new stadium and better revenue will make a difference to Spurs, and that we will be able to compete financially with the top 4 teams. Of course it is not all about money, we need the right players, and the right manager to compete. But a new stadium will be an important part of that equation.

I also liked Harry, but I knew at the time he was a stopgap because of the problems that were caused by Juande Ramos and his non-English ablity, or lack of it. While at Spurs he filled that stopgap, but then let the ball drop because of his attention being directed at the England job. In the end he ended up with the booby prize in the shape of QPR. So much for all that talk about being a great manager. But he will be remembered fondly for his stop gap period at Spurs.

[Jane]

I agree with Voice and Jane. But I am also optimistic and am hoping that a new stadium and better revenue will make a difference to Spurs, and that we will be able to compete financially with the top 4 teams. Of course it is not all about money, we need the right players, and the right manager to compete. But a new stadium will be an important part of that equation.

I also liked Harry, but I knew at the time he was a stopgap because of the problems that were caused by Juande Ramos and his non-English ablity, or lack of it. While at Spurs he filled that stopgap, but then let the ball drop because of his attention being directed at the England job. In the end he ended up with the booby prize in the shape of QPR. So much for all that talk about being a great manager. But he will be remembered fondly for his stop gap period at Spurs.

I thought Harry would do well at QPR, but even that job was just too big for him. Sadly I think his career is finished now. I also think that his greatest achievement was managing Spurs to 4th spot twice, but only once getting them into European Champions league football once. I suppose overall he will be remembered like Venables, as a spive, charmer and somebody that followed the money. In the case of Venables, he did manage England. Harry will be remembered as nearly, but not quite. But he leaves the game a millionaire and not many can say that.

Jane x

[Spursx]

I agree with Voice and Jane. But I am also optimistic and am hoping that a new stadium and better revenue will make a difference to Spurs, and that we will be able to compete financially with the top 4 teams. Of course it is not all about money, we need the right players, and the right manager to compete. But a new stadium will be an important part of that equation.

I also liked Harry, but I knew at the time he was a stopgap because of the problems that were caused by Juande Ramos and his non-English ablity, or lack of it. While at Spurs he filled that stopgap, but then let the ball drop because of his attention being directed at the England job. In the end he ended up with the booby prize in the shape of QPR. So much for all that talk about being a great manager. But he will be remembered fondly for his stop gap period at Spurs.

I thought Harry would do well at QPR, but even that job was just too big for him. Sadly I think his career is finished now. I also think that his greatest achievement was managing Spurs to 4th spot twice, but only once getting them into European Champions league football once. I suppose overall he will be remembered like Venables, as a spive, charmer and somebody that followed the money. In the case of Venables, he did manage England. Harry will be remembered as nearly, but not quite. But he leaves the game a millionaire and not many can say that.

Jane x

Don’t they say about politicians that all careers end in failure? I suppose the same can be said about football managers. The only exception I can think of is Alex Ferguson who ended with the League title and walked away leaving a team that was on its last legs.

[RiffHard]

Yes, Jane, this forum is about Spurs. You haven't been a member for long, but you should definitely browse through old threads and see how every single one of them ended up with a Harry Redknapp debate. Most of us are simply sick and tired of it.

[Blackjack]

There are many pros and cons for playing in the Europa league but lets not forget we spent years just trying to get european football!, now we have it we should at least respect it and be greatfull for where we are now!, we also need this to have any chance of bringing any half decent players!, lack of this will I fear only set us back in the direction we have come from.
The champions league is our aim but at what cost?, do we really gamble and finish outside European places in the hope the less games and only playing Saturdays more will get us a 4th place or higher finish? I would say no, keep playing the European teams, keep testing our team against different styles and quality players, keep putting our younger players in and let them experience whats its like and what they need to reach the highest levels!, give them goals to strive for! the more our team plays abroad the more our team gets noticed by other teams and there players so this in itself will help to attract better players.
Finaly we have lost when the team has had plenty of rest so Thurs & Sun are really just excuses!, the team loses because it is not good enough on the day!, the team selection is wrong or the mental attitude is wrong this coupled with not having a true leader to motivate the team but thats another topic altogether! for me any European football is a MUST!!!!

[RSS61]

Yes, Jane, this forum is about Spurs. You haven't been a member for long, but you should definitely browse through old threads and see how every single one of them ended up with a Harry Redknapp debate. Most of us are simply sick and tired of it.

I would still say that it's anyone's right to bring up anything connected to Spurs. I do it quite often, whether anyone responds to it is up to them. When nobody does, I generally drop the particular subject.
Personally I would like to bang on about Jimmy Greaves and Alan Gilzean all day, and no doubt somewhere somebody would be interested. Same applies to Harry no doubt.
Lastly Harry was at my golf club, Upminster, 2 weeks ago for lunch. Unfortunately I was in Spain at the time, as apparently he had quite a few chats with some of the members of whom quite a few are Spurs fans.

[Glenn R]

Yes, Jane, this forum is about Spurs. You haven't been a member for long, but you should definitely browse through old threads and see how every single one of them ended up with a Harry Redknapp debate. Most of us are simply sick and tired of it.

I would still say that it's anyone's right to bring up anything connected to Spurs. I do it quite often, whether anyone responds to it is up to them. When nobody does, I generally drop the particular subject.
Personally I would like to bang on about Jimmy Greaves and Alan Gilzean all day, and no doubt somewhere somebody would be interested. Same applies to Harry no doubt.
Lastly Harry was at my golf club, Upminster, 2 weeks ago for lunch. Unfortunately I was in Spain at the time, as apparently he had quite a few chats with some of the members of whom quite a few are Spurs fans.

I agree. I also agree with Riffhard that some people are sick of it. Simples! Those that don't want to talk about him, don't. And those that do, do. If nobody wants to engage with that person then it will die quietly.

It is interesting to observe that it was Mr Finch that brought it up, but has criticised in the past for it being brought up. And Riffhard was sick of it, but brought it up so that others could debate the values of debating something that certain people were sick off. I hope members can see the irony of this?

Whether people like it or not Harry Redknapp is part of our history; for good or for bad. And this forum is about Spurs; past, present and future.

[RiffHard]

Okay, point taken. Sorry for being rude.

[Paul Finch]

Yes, Jane, this forum is about Spurs. You haven't been a member for long, but you should definitely browse through old threads and see how every single one of them ended up with a Harry Redknapp debate. Most of us are simply sick and tired of it.

I would still say that it's anyone's right to bring up anything connected to Spurs. I do it quite often, whether anyone responds to it is up to them. When nobody does, I generally drop the particular subject.
Personally I would like to bang on about Jimmy Greaves and Alan Gilzean all day, and no doubt somewhere somebody would be interested. Same applies to Harry no doubt.
Lastly Harry was at my golf club, Upminster, 2 weeks ago for lunch. Unfortunately I was in Spain at the time, as apparently he had quite a few chats with some of the members of whom quite a few are Spurs fans.

I agree. I also agree with Riffhard that some people are sick of it. Simples! Those that don't want to talk about him, don't. And those that do, do. If nobody wants to engage with that person then it will die quietly.

It is interesting to observe that it was Mr Finch that brought it up, but has criticised in the past for it being brought up. And Riffhard was sick of it, but brought it up so that others could debate the values of debating something that certain people were sick off. I hope members can see the irony of this?
           
           Whether people like it or not Harry Redknapp is part of our history; for good or for bad. And this forum is about Spurs; past, present and future.

           Voice and Riff,
                             Give me a break, I was responding to Voice's comment regarding us punching above our weight when we qualified for the CL, and I was very quick to add that I WAS NOT   re-opening the 'Arry debate again, so please give me the courtesy of READING ALL of my post before you start criticising and casting aspersions.

[Paul Finch]

  Voice,
               The reason Chelsea/Man City/Man U and to a degree Arse--- have succeeded is largely due to the fact that they have spent enormous amounts of money in transfer fees and pay ridiculous wages to build squads that will be competitive in the CL. Levy absolutely refuses to pay ridiculous wages and you cannot blame him, although it does affect the quality of players that we can attract, and there-in lies the problem! 

And one of the ways they got that money was having  bigger grounds than we have.
1.   Chelsea won the league with a capacity of 41,837
2.   City’s capacity is 48,000
3.   Ars*nal’s capacity is 60,272
4.   United’s 76,962
5.   Liverpool’s 45,276
6.   Spurs 36,000 plus
On top of that their extra revenue is better than ours. We finished where we should have. Granted those top clubs had millionaires throwing money at their clubs, but now the fair play rules have come in they can only spend what they take in. We finished we were deserved to be finished.

   

I have to disagree with you that we were punching above our weight when we qualified for the CL as was shown in our performances in the CL the following season, you do not beat the quality of opposition that we beat if you don't have a quality side or squad plus the style of football that we were playing under Harry Redknapp was fantastic(I am not re-opening the "Arry debate) and I must admit that at times this season under Poch we are starting to play in a style that does get the adrenalin flowing so hopefully he is allowed to continue the good work that he has started.   

When we finished 4th in 2009/10 City were having managerial problems so we replaced them.
When we finished 4th in 2011/12 Chelsea were also having problems and we replaced them.
We finished 4th in the history of the Premier league only twice.
Daniel Level in his article to the Spurs fans this month says “I know you would like somebody to throw money at the club, but that isn’t going to happen under the fair play rules.” Clubs have to live within their means. We are where we should be and only finished 4th because of the misfortunes of those that are regularly there misperforming.
Harry was lucky, but if I accepted he was brilliant he was so brilliant that when he left nobody was queuing up to take him on. Finally he got QPR. England didn’t want him, United didn’t want him and most of the other clubs didn’t want him. That should tell you something, on top of that he was fired from Spurs.
If we finish above 5th then it will be because of the misfortunes of others, or I should say those that are regularly in the top 4.

I liked Harry and I thought he did a good job at Spurs while he was there, but I have to agree with you here. He did what he was asked to do, but Levy and most of the fans knew his limitations. That is why he was only a stop gap for Spurs.

As for punching above our weight, I agree. I am a season ticket holder and if we compete with the top four on an even level then we need the same financial incentives as the other clubs have. And that includes a better stadium.

When I watched Spurs fight for 4th spot I knew, and most of the Spurs supporters I was in contact with knew, that if we were going to replace one of the golden boys then it would have been because one of them had slipped below par, and in the two cases that voice highlighted they did.

A 56,000 seater stadium will give us better revenue and a stronger position.

Jane x

    Voice,
            When City qualified to play CL in season 2011-2012 it was the first time since 1968-69,(hardly a Champions League regular) and they did so simply because they Paid over the top transfer fees and wages in order to finish 3rd in PL, whether they were having Managerial problems or not is of little consequence, the same applies to Chelsea, we finished in 4th position because WE WERE BETTER than them, who gives a monkeys that they were having problems, you obviously believe that we didn't deserve to finish in 4th position and gain CL football, and if I remember correctly, the only reason that we missed out in 2013-2014 was because Chelsea won CL in 2012-2013 which gave them automatic qualification over us.