Harry Redknapp

[Glenn R]

Certain fans go on about Harry Redknapp and how they would like him back or how he is a great manager. But on a closer look at his record he certainly isn’t of title winning material.

At every club he has been too he has never had a winning ratio above 49.5%.
Club    Period    Win ratio
      
Tottenham   Oct 2008 - Jun 2012   49.5%
Portsmouth   Dec 2005 - Oct 2008   42.5%
Southampton   Dec 2004 - Dec 2005   26.5%
Portsmouth   Mar 2002 - Nov 2004   46.5%
West Ham   Aug 1994 - May 2001   37%
Bournemouth   Oct 1983 - Jun 1992   39.39%

Harry Redknapp is good at getting clubs out of trouble. That is why he was called in at Spurs and that is why he was called in at QPR. But beyond that he isn’t Title winning quality. Levy brought him in as a stopgap.

His record shows that he isn't and wasn’t suitable material for Spurs. We’ve had a few sacking this season and not one other club came in for Harry, why? Yes, QPR came in for him to do the job that he was brought into Spurs for. So that they can keep their Premier League status. Beyond that he doesn’t have the talent.

Redknapp is good with the media and that is why he suckers people in. Just like Venables. Another one cut from the same cloth. His record was even worse than Redknapp’s (winning ratio: 40.85%). Neither good enough for a club like Spurs to challenge for the title or be able to win the European Championship trophy.

From what I’ve seen – so far – of AVB he will take Spurs further than either Venables or ‘Arry were capable of.

[Metalanimal]

I am sick of HR had been even before he got the boot from Spurs IMO he had to go after the senario that lost us third place!

Sick of his media flapping, sick of never accepting he f**ked up selection or tactics wise, sick of talking up the England job, sick of his attempts to bring the Beckham circus to WHL sick of him signing golden oldies!

In all many who now are on the HR was great band wagon were also one many occasions wanting him out!

AVB was always going to get a touch time here due to what happened at Chelsea, but look at every quality manager they have had they all get the boot including Mourinho and the CL and FA cup winning manager RDM.

Arry would never have taken us that step forward that we are capable of he just doesnt have the mind set or skill set.

Hell most teams he works with go down a league then down the s**tter! bit like that latter part of our season last year when we had third all but in the bag!

[spursjoolz]

I am sick of HR had been even before he got the boot from Spurs IMO he had to go after the senario that lost us third place!

Sick of his media flapping, sick of never accepting he f**ked up selection or tactics wise, sick of talking up the England job, sick of his attempts to bring the Beckham circus to WHL sick of him signing golden oldies!

When Capello was sacked and Arry was fighting his court case, all you heard in the press was about Arry. I really got fed up with it and truely pissed off when we lost all those games and consequently 3rd place. Arry never took an ounce of blame for this string of bad games regardless of the fact that most people pointed the finger at him. So when he got fired, I cracked a bottle of champagne!

Now, there are no guarantees in this world and AVB isn't bullet proof. I expect he will cock up at some point like all managers do and he will no doubt suffer the wrath of the doom and gloomers on this forum. But if he gets us as high as Arry did over the next couple of years without taking his eye of the ball, it will be mission accomplished as far as I am concerned.

 

[RSS61]

I tend to go along with the reasoning that Harry was brought in to get us out of the mess we were in. For me he was just fine until the court case, and England speculation, when he took his eye of his main job, which was to guide us to the 3rd place that we should have achieved. He should have insisted on a top striker and CB last January instead of Saha and Nelson, or resigned then. Only then would we have known who was behind those two hasbeens being brought in.

[Paul Finch]

Voice as per usual YOU ARE TALKING OUT OF YOUR F--KING ARSE, anyone can make stats suit their argument, how can his win % at Spurs be as low as you say when at his arrival we were bottom, finished 8th that season, then went 4th,5th,4th in the PL, or as per usual are you using other comps to validate your argument. You use the PL and CL as your yardstick when it suits you and every other comp when it enhances your argument. Do you really think that everyone that reads this forum is stupid and gullible enough to believe you. YOU F--KWIT.


 

[spursjoolz]

Now, now!

[Metalanimal]

Dear me, whatever next!

[Glenn R]

Voice as per usual YOU ARE TALKING OUT OF YOUR F--KING ARSE, anyone can make stats suit their argument, how can his win % at Spurs be as low as you say when at his arrival we were bottom, finished 8th that season, then went 4th,5th,4th in the PL, or as per usual are you using other comps to validate your argument. You use the PL and CL as your yardstick when it suits you and every other comp when it enhances your argument. Do you really think that everyone that reads this forum is stupid and gullible enough to believe you. YOU F--KWIT.


 

Well, going by the other replies it is you that is in the minority. However, I wouldn't have expected you to say anything else. You are not the sharpest tool in the box so I can understand your support of 'Arry... and probably Venables as well.

It was only two seasons under him we finished 4th (a good position for an average team). But teams that have that extra quality aim higher. We would have got no further under 'Arry if he stayed. Levy knew this and most of the intelligent fans.... then there are fans like you who talk out of your Ars*nal. When somebody like you attacks me I at least know I am on the right track. G'day support

[dimexi]

Certain fans go on about Harry Redknapp and how they would like him back or how he is a great manager. But on a closer look at his record he certainly isn’t of title winning material.

Voice, I started reading this thread and thought, this may be the time to challenge some of your points. As you may know I am not a doom and gloomer and have been very honest with my views on AVB and shown realistic and respectful support. However, I am and always will be a supporter of HR, I feel his sacking was unnecessary, unprofessional and unpredictable. Putting the stats to one side for a moment, the story read as follows. Played attractive, attacking football. Best consistent league positions in my lifetime, hope for the future.

A team can only have the amount of league success that is available in the current year. By this I mean that in some years the league will be harder, or more even than others. The second point is, what do we consider to be the measure of success? If achieving champions league is deemed success then we have been extremely successful. 2 years out of 3 is extremely good. (I do not accept that last year counted as not qualifying as this is a separate issue of Chelsea taking our place, down to small print and a heap of circumstance out of our control). Or is success only obtained in the winning? If this is the case then any position, any win percentage that is below that of the winner is quite frankly, losing!

The problem I have faced when actually breaking apart what you have said in regards to Harry, is that there is not actually a lot wrong with it. I was expecting to defend Harry as my personal opinion of him is so high, but aside from the personal respect and the story of watching and enjoying Spurs more than ever, my heart talks a different language and my head was willing to join in the fun while it lasted.

One more thing before getting into the numbers, which I actually quite like, is some of the things you have said about Harry and some of the viewpoints you have expressed I think are inaccurate or are inconsistent.

1. Talking about win% at other clubs is irrelevant, he can only work with what he has.
2. His being or not being title winning material, is only a factor if we are saying that success is measured only by the actual winning.
3.If above statement is true, then making a statement like 'not able to challenge for the title' is inadmissible. Either he is able to challenge but not win and be successful or if he does not win then he loses, he cannot be accused at failing at both.
4. Redknapp being liked by the media has no bearing on my opinion of him, I am not a sucker and I resent the accusation.

Right now for the fun part, but first Mr Finch...

 

Voice as per usual YOU ARE TALKING OUT OF YOUR F--KING ARSE, anyone can make stats suit their argument, how can his win % at Spurs be as low as you say when at his arrival we were bottom, finished 8th that season, then went 4th,5th,4th in the PL, or as per usual are you using other comps to validate your argument. You use the PL and CL as your yardstick when it suits you and every other comp when it enhances your argument. Do you really think that everyone that reads this forum is stupid and gullible enough to believe you. YOU F--KWIT.


 

I agree that statistics are not completely reliable as evidence, as there is always more to a story than the numbers they can produce. Therefore I have looked into your claim and I agree, Voices numbers are not accurate. So let us keep to the facts.

Harry's win % in the premiership reads as follows:
2008/09 - 46.6% (obtained in 30 games as manager)
2009/10 - 55.2%
2010/11 - 42.1%
2011/12 - 52.6 %

Average win % - 49.1% (oops this is lower, wasn't expecting that)

Now let us look at the premiership since 2000/01 and see where we fit into the grand scheme of things. If Harry was able to produce his best, every year we could expect to have a win % of 55.2%. With this percentage we would approximately have ended in the following league positions.
2001 - 2nd
2002 - 4th
2003 - 3rd
2004 - 4th
2005 - 4th
2006 - 4th
2007 - 3rd
2008 - 4th
2009 - 4th (if harry from the start)
2010 - 4th (this was our best year with Harry)
2011 - 3rd (we were actually 5th)
2012 - 3rd

So if success is ending up in CL spots Harry, has the potential to reach it every year. However, if 2nd counts as losing he is a long way off. If this is the case we need to look at what would be necessary to achieve that aim. Since 2000/01 the average win % for the title winning side is 70.01%. With the highest being 76% (Chelsea 05/06 and 06/07) and the lowest being 60.5% (Man Utd 10/11).

It is at this point that I am able to return to my initial belief that I would be able to challenge your position. The facts remain as follows

1.If we measure success by getting into the CL (challenging) then Harry was more than capable of achieving this.

2. If winning is the only acceptable goal, then Harry with the resources he had, either was incapable or unable to obtain this target. If this is the target, then it is not only the manager that is responsible for achieving that goal.

If levy wants point 1. then Harry, AVB or a number of other managers could reach this aim. If point 2. is the goal, then different players would be needed and most probably one of only a few managers would be up to that task.

Having done my best to raise some points to your comments Voice, I would just like to finish with a small request. Please stop using silly insults as a way to make out that your view is more intelligent or more worthwhile than anothers'. It kind of weakens your position and shows a lack of respect. Stick to the arguments you want to make and let others counter them.

[Glenn R]

Having done my best to raise some points to your comments Voice, I would just like to finish with a small request. Please stop using silly insults as a way to make out that your view is more intelligent or more worthwhile than anothers'. It kind of weakens your position and shows a lack of respect. Stick to the arguments you want to make and let others counter them.

I only used the language I did because of the language I had received from Finch. He seems the sort of person to understand barroom brawl language.

I don't mind criticism but I think you are being a bit unfair just singling me out when I responded to someone who was using such language against me and has done it on quite a few posts.

I am quite happy to apologise to my assailant, providing I get an apology back and we continue to debate under Queensbuerry rules (i.e without abuse).

[Glenn R]

Let us look at the facts.

In season 2011/12 we finished 4th.

That was ahead of Chelsea and Liverpool two other teams capable of winning the League or a top 4th spot. Chelsea was having problems and had slipped badly. If they were on form we would have been 5th. If Liverpool had been on form we would have been 6th.

Season 2010/11
Spurs finished 5th behind United, Chelsea, City and Ars*nal. Again Liverpool who have the resources to win the league finished 6th.

Season 2009/10
Chelsea was first, United 2nd, Ars*nal 3rd while City finished 5th and Liverpool 7th.

The only clubs capable of winning the league is United, City, Ars*nal, Chelsea and Liverpool (when they can get back into winning ways). We have got to get into that group and I believe Spurs have the resources to do it. Making them the 6th club all fighting for 1st spot and anywhere from 1st to 4th. Harry did well but he had luck on his side. If Chelsea and Liverpool and earlier City (had the resources they’ve got now) we would never have made 5th and if Liverpool had got their act together then sixth would be our best.

Now let us look at our positions since we were in the Premier league.
Season 08/09 8th
Season 07/08 11th
Season 06/07 5th  Martin Jol was manager then.
Season 05/06 5th  Martin Jol was manager.
Season 04/05 9th

Season 03/04 14th
Season 02/03 10th
Beyond that the best we had finished was 7th and the worst 15th.
My point is whether we had Harry (who was lucky) or one of the other managers we would never finished amongst the elite. The only times we did was when one (or two) of them were having problems. Otherwise Harry wouldn’t have been good enough to take us beyond 5th. Spurs have the resources to be one of the top elite teams in England. To do that we need the financial resources (which we got) and the right manager which we haven’t had for decades. We needed somebody to take us to the next level otherwise we would be competing with the rest of the 14 other Premiership teams for the next highest position (after the top 6th spot). Levy realised that Redknapp was only good for one thing and that was survival, beyond that he was a dead fish. That was why no other top club has ever come in for Harry in his entire career and even England didn’t want him.

Yes we must give him credit for what he has done for us but Spurs are a top club that should be fighting with the elite of the Premiership and we wouldn’t have done that under Harry.

[Paul Finch]

Voice
    I will re-iterate what I have said in previous posts, because I don't agree with you, does not make me or anyone else a Boo-boy, what it does mean however, is I and others like me are passionate about the Club we love and support, it also shows that we do have an opinion, and as such are entitled to express it, whether you like it or not, it does not however entitle you to single those individuals out for the adolescent and boorish remarks that you choose to write. As for you not minding criticism, what a joke, you hate being criticised, every time someone has the temerity to criticise you, you respond in your usual way by attempting to insult them, as I said it is about time you started to act your age, or is that what you are doing? As for being singled out, it is blatantly apparent that others that read this forum are somewhat fed-up by your boorish tirades.


 

[dimexi]

Let us look at the facts.

Ok, so you have chosen to go down the facts route. I must warn you that this is dangerous ground and an area in which you are likely to lose, with a draw being your best hope. You start with a sweeping statement like that and then go on to conduct your points on very little of them. For ease and to save time debating, I have highlighted your facts in blue and your opinions in red. I could have been harder but was feeling generous occasionally.

Let us look at the facts.

In season 2011/12 we finished 4th.

That was ahead of Chelsea and Liverpool two other teams capable of winning the League or a top 4th spot. Chelsea was having problems and had slipped badly. If they were on form we would have been 5th. If Liverpool had been on form we would have been 6th.

Season 2010/11
Spurs finished 5th behind United, Chelsea, City and Ars*nal. Again Liverpool who have the resources to win the league finished 6th.

Season 2009/10
Chelsea was first, United 2nd, Ars*nal 3rd while City finished 5th and Liverpool 7th.

The only clubs capable of winning the league is United, City, Ars*nal, Chelsea and Liverpool (when they can get back into winning ways). We have got to get into that group and I believe Spurs have the resources to do it. Making them the 6th club all fighting for 1st spot and anywhere from 1st to 4th. Harry did well but he had luck on his side. If Chelsea and Liverpool and earlier City (had the resources they’ve got now) we would never have made 5th and if Liverpool had got their act together then sixth would be our best.

Now let us look at our positions since we were in the Premier league.
Season 08/09 8th
Season 07/08 11th
Season 06/07 5th  Martin Jol was manager then.
Season 05/06 5th  Martin Jol was manager.
Season 04/05 9th

Season 03/04 14th
Season 02/03 10th
Beyond that the best we had finished was 7th and the worst 15th.
My point is whether we had Harry (who was lucky) or one of the other managers we would never finished amongst the elite. The only times we did was when one (or two) of them were having problems. Otherwise Harry wouldn’t have been good enough to take us beyond 5th. Spurs have the resources to be one of the top elite teams in England. To do that we need the financial resources (which we got) and the right manager which we haven’t had for decades. We needed somebody to take us to the next level otherwise we would be competing with the rest of the 14 other Premiership teams for the next highest position (after the top 6th spot). Levy realised that Redknapp was only good for one thing and that was survival, beyond that he was a dead fish. That was why no other top club has ever come in for Harry in his entire career and even England didn’t want him.

Yes we must give him credit for what he has done for us but Spurs are a top club that should be fighting with the elite of the Premiership and we wouldn’t have done that under Harry.
 

Now let us explore some of those opinions you raised.

Chelsea was having problems and had slipped badly. If they were on form we would have been 5th. If Liverpool had been on form we would have been 6th.

You cannot say that if a team played better, were on form or didn’t have the problems they had, they would have finished higher than us. It did not happen and has no basis in reality, you do not know what would have happened if those issues were not there. There may then have been other issues to replace them. Or what if spurs were on form, played better etc. Etc. It is a pointless and futile train of thought.

The only clubs capable of winning the league is United, City, Ars*nal, Chelsea and Liverpool (when they can get back into winning ways).
 

Although this is quite sound, with the reality being closer to just United, City and Chelsea, it ultimately is only opinion as any team in the premiership is capable of winning the title. But probably they won’t. I am not sure why Liverpool is in the mix and IMO Ars*nal are not that different either. I would say they have a chance of top 4, possibly top 3.

We have got to get into that group
 

We are in that group and have been for a few years now.

Harry did well but he had luck on his side. If Chelsea and Liverpool and earlier City (had the resources they’ve got now) we would never have made 5th and if Liverpool had got their act together then sixth would be our best.
 

See above points for clarity. What is luck? There are instances when unlikely things happen but most teams create their own luck, (if luck exists at all)

My point is whether we had Harry (who was lucky) or one of the other managers we would never finished amongst the elite.
 

But we did finish amongst the elite. 4th, 5th, 4th

The only times we did was when one (or two) of them were having problems.
 

No, because we won more games than they did!

Otherwise Harry wouldn’t have been good enough to take us beyond 5th.
 

Don’t need to repeat myself here.

We needed somebody to take us to the next level otherwise we would be competing with the rest of the 14 other Premiership teams for the next highest position (after the top 6th spot).
 

Did you not see the positions we would finish, each year since 2000? Not once outside the top 4, all amongst the elite.

Levy realised that Redknapp was only good for one thing and that was survival, beyond that he was a dead fish. That was why no other top club has ever come in for Harry in his entire career and even England didn’t want him.
 

This is bordering the ridiculous. Are you Levy? Do you actually know the reasons for Levy’s decision? ... I thought not. Statements like this, may be your opinion on these events but most definitely are not facts.

Yes we must give him credit for what he has done for us but Spurs are a top club that should be fighting with the elite of the Premiership and we wouldn’t have done that under Harry.

I think the facts actually suggest that we would have continued getting into the top 4 more times than not.
So what do you deem to be a measure of success?

[Paul Finch]

Dimexi,
          I for One appreciate your reasoning, and your arguments are sound and make a lot of sense, unlike some, but I must warn you that the person that you have proved wrong is more than likely going to label you a Boo-boy, and will no doubt try and find some way to ridicule you for having the audacity to argue against him. he thinks that he is the VOICE of everyone on this site, and clearly he is not.


 

[Glenn R]

Voice
    I will re-iterate what I have said in previous posts, because I don't agree with you, does not make me or anyone else a Boo-boy, what it does mean however, is I and others like me are passionate about the Club we love and support, it also shows that we do have an opinion, and as such are entitled to express it, whether you like it or not, it does not however entitle you to single those individuals out for the adolescent and boorish remarks that you choose to write. As for you not minding criticism, what a joke, you hate being criticised, every time someone has the temerity to criticise you, you respond in your usual way by attempting to insult them, as I said it is about time you started to act your age, or is that what you are doing? As for being singled out, it is blatantly apparent that others that read this forum are somewhat fed-up by your boorish tirades.


 

Yes you are entitled to your opinions – even if you don’t know what you are talking about – but I was surprised when joining this forum that a certain group of so-called supporters spent too much time reminiscing in the past and spent too much time listening to Chelsea supporters criticising our manager, rather than living in the past and supporting our team and manager. But you are right, you are entitled to your opinion and without that I’d have nothing to come back at. So thank you