Offical 25 man squad.

[CountPuchi]

Actually the 25 man squad is good for England. Look at La-Liga, they have been using that 25 man squad rule for quite some time and it really helped their youths and national team. I think the FA Wanted this to help England really.

But still there are drawbacks to this rule which in turn makes players in a difficult position sometimes. But hey? If it helps us that players can control the club anymore because of the rule id gladly accept it . I dont want another Keano/Berbatov scenario with any of our players again.

In theory yeah... but look at Ars*nal, not 1 English player in their 25...Players like Fabregas etc have been counted as 'Home Grown '

so is there really any point?

In theory it is good and all but in fact i think clubs are actually using their Youth's for once. We cant blame Ars*nal though because they snap up kids from all over the world when they were 16 and trained with Ars*nal until they were over 21 thus making them Home Grown but not English.

Look at it this way, have you noticed us Tottenham buying alot of British youth? In fact i think when you look at it we might be using the same way Barca(Alot of young Spinards) takes their youth but the difference is that we dont play our Youth's. Right now its changing and im glad to think that with Rose debut last season its a good sign that we will use our Youth's sooner or  later since we are already in the Champs league!


Although we are still lucky that the PL Hasnt enforce the ruling where theres a limit of (3 non-eu) players in the 25 man squad(Like in la Liga). Because if they did that, you can count Ars*nal out because they would be in really big trouble.

[ugs]

I still think the 25-man rule stopped the likes of Citeh having half a dozen 'Bellamy situations' where they would happily pay these players wages from their limitless sovereign wealth and not bat an eyelid, and also keep the players from playing for rivals...

I think someone quoted AC Milan as doing the same thing about 20yrs ago when that crook Berlusconi took over them...

and it did hinder Citeh to have this 25-man rule, in the context that it stopped them hijacking other players from rivals about to acquire them... if it wasnt for the rule, it would have been easy for them to get vdv for 10m pay him 5k a week more than we would and then just have him play the odd game here and there to their whim..

ANOTHER POINT NOBODY HAS MENTIONED :-

any player that plays 10% or less of their clubs entire number of competitive (non-Friendly) games in a given season is entitled to rip up their contract and move on a free-transfer, if they so wish... this is a FIFA directive...

therefore clubs take a risk if they buy too many players, and some players play very few games.... as thry can then leave for nothing.

That depends on whether the player is a mercenary or not in the case of Van Der Vaart I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gone to Citeh due to their lack of CL footy. The money issue a secondary issue these days as most of the players who are of the required quality are already multi millionaires in the vast majority of cases.
 
I tend to agree with Biggs on this, what's the point of saying you have to have 'X' amount of home grown players and then allow all and sundry to be 'home grown' under certain circumstances, it's pointless.
 
The only real way is to stipulate that a team has to play at least 'X' (Say 5) players of the nationally of the the country they are playing in, then teams will be forced to play young and upcoming talent. At the moment there are so many loop holes and clauses in the 25 man Squad ruling you could drive 3 double decker buses through them side by side !!!!!
 
 

[Biggs]

Actually the 25 man squad is good for England. Look at La-Liga, they have been using that 25 man squad rule for quite some time and it really helped their youths and national team. I think the FA Wanted this to help England really.

But still there are drawbacks to this rule which in turn makes players in a difficult position sometimes. But hey? If it helps us that players can control the club anymore because of the rule id gladly accept it . I dont want another Keano/Berbatov scenario with any of our players again.

In theory yeah... but look at Ars*nal, not 1 English player in their 25...Players like Fabregas etc have been counted as 'Home Grown '

so is there really any point?

you disappoint me Biggsy...

you cannot quote just 1 example out of 20 clubs to help prove a point.... the average number of 'home-grown' players under21yrs, throughout 20 league clubs, will greatly have an English/British quota attached....

you can'y stop every individual case, but the homegrown ruling will improve the trend of having more young, English homegrown players - as the vast majority of u18s (who will have to be 'in the system' for 3yrs minimum before aged 21yrs)  with Prem clubs will be fairly locally-based English/British players - thats just the logistics of living and economics...

we'll soon see...Chelsea are another one with only 4 English players named.

I really don't think this rule will make as much as a difference as you think.

Yeah, its got the potential to have more 'Home grown' players now, but nothing will change

Team can still buy young foreign players knowing that in a few years they will be eligible to be registered as a home grown player.

Look at Man Utd for example, that new signing Bebe, in 2 years he will be considered a Home grown player. Now will that benefit England? No because he will choose to play for Portugal.

All i'm saying is, this rule does not force clubs to bring through more English players. They bring in a 16/17 year old by the time they're 20, they have a 'Home Grown' player...so has anything really changed?

[Gareth Keown]

you simply cannot go around stipulating criteria based on nationality.... its racist for 1 thing.... also it contravenes the EU single-market for another..

the homegrown-8 rule is the nearest the Premier League can get to a desire for clubs to develop young English players more, without actually crossing the line and breaking the Law....

its amazing that some actual grown-ups have problems understanding this quite simple fact.... its worked pretty well in Spain for years and slowed somewhat the running conveyor-belt of young S.Americans undercutting young Spanish players... worked quite well for Spain last 2yrs, dont you think ??..

PS - also dont forget that any young foreign players brought in to qualiofy as homegrown, must be brought in before their 18th birthday at least....as they have to spend 3yrs in the system here before they turn 21yrs old.... for the vast majority of clubs, that will mean scouting in this country and developing English u18s (albeit with a few foreign lads here and there considered outstanding talents at such a young age)...

PPS - again Biggsy, youre cherry-picking examples which are not typical for the entire league of TWENTY clubs.... not just top clubs that have global scouting systems therefore in comparison will have a disproportionately higher number of young foreign u18yrs players.... and even then, I suspect that the majority of youth players EVEN AT THESE CLUBS are of British nationality..... this will be even more the case with the other 75% of clubs not considered in the top-tier eg. Stoke, Birmingham, Aston Villa - and thats not even mentioning the smaller clubs eg. Blackpool with very few young foreign youth players, if at all)

[Aosoth]

you simply cannot go around stipulating criteria based on nationality.... its racist for 1 thing

Uhh no it's not....racism has feck all to do with your nationality.

[Biggs]

you simply cannot go around stipulating criteria based on nationality.... its racist for 1 thing.... also it contravenes the EU single-market for another..

Stop playing the racist card grareth, it's boring now. Not one part of my post is racist.

the homegrown-8 rule is the nearest the Premier League can get to a desire for clubs to develop young English players more, without actually crossing the line and breaking the Law....

your obviously missing my point. i know what the rule is intended for...my point is, i don't think it will make any difference in the PL

its amazing that some actual grown-ups have problems understanding this quite simple fact.... its worked pretty well in Spain for years and slowed somewhat the running conveyor-belt of young S.Americans undercutting young Spanish players... worked quite well for Spain last 2yrs, dont you think ??..

I would only say there has been 1 stand out club out of (to quote you) TWENTY that has been successful with this in Spain.

If it was really that successful, clubs like A. Bilbao and Real Sociedad would have done alot better in recent years don't you think?

Considering they have had their Basque only development programme going for decades.

Look at italy also in recent years, they have tried the same and look at there down fall after there last world cup win.

PS - also dont forget that any young foreign players brought in to qualiofy as homegrown, must be brought in before their 18th birthday at least....as they have to spend 3yrs in the system here before they turn 21yrs old.... for the vast majority of clubs, that will mean scouting in this country and developing English u18s (albeit with a few foreign lads here and there considered outstanding talents at such a young age)...

again, i'm not denying that... and it's intention is a good thing. but i still don't think this will be the main priority of clubs, just because of the home grown rule. I still think club will go abroad to buy youngsters for the pure fact that its cheaper.

PPS - again Biggsy, youre cherry-picking examples which are not typical for the entire league of TWENTY clubs.... not just top clubs that have global scouting systems therefore in comparison will have a disproportionately higher number of young foreign u18yrs players.... and even then, I suspect that the majority of youth players EVEN AT THESE CLUBS are of British nationality..... this will be even more the case with the other 75% of clubs not considered in the top-tier eg. Stoke, Birmingham, Aston Villa - and thats not even mentioning the smaller clubs eg. Blackpool with very few young foreign youth players, if at all)

but the fact is, our youth systems are poor over here. I don't care how many people say " it's because there are to many foreign players " being for the reason why young players don't get a chance... that's bull. If they are good enough they would get there chance...We don't seem to take pride in developing young players like other countries do and that's why i think this rule will not be a success.

I think the development of young players will still be slow here, forcing the clubs hand to look else where and it will not majorly change anything in England. Clubs will still operate the same

[Aosoth]

but the fact is, our youth systems are poor over here. I don't care how many people say " it's because there are to many foreign players " being for the reason why young players don't get a chance... that's bull. If they are good enough they would get there chance...We don't seem to take pride in developing young players like other countries do and that's why i think this rule will not be a success.

I think the development of young players will still be slow here, forcing the clubs hand to look else where and it will not majorly change anything in England. Clubs will still operate the same

I think a huge part of that is the mentality of those running the English game.  It takes so much more effort for smaller less developed lads to get into the game at the younger ages simply because scouts and coaches are pre-occupied with the physicality of the game.  If they can't see you developing into a 6 ft+ player at the age of 13/14 you have a hell of a job to get in.  It's the wrong way to look at it entirely.  Stop focusing on the physical and teach the kids basic skills first.

[Gareth Keown]

but youre taking 2 hugely rich clubs in Spain (compared to the others) to base your opinions on - which is illusory.

the fact remains that if you give a bigger chance for young local u18s of whatever their respective nationality to be trained/developed into the 1st-team squad, then you should, by mathematical probability alone, stand a better chance of more of those u18s realising their potential and making it into their league clubs...

thats what it boils down to.

PS - how many clubs even like Ars*nal 'buy' or sign foreign players under 18yrs as compared to the total number of u18s in their academies ??..... still gonna be less than 25% I'd wager... the vast majority of even Ars*nal's youth teams are composed of local British youths probably even mostly based within London.... so they can go home to dinner their mummies have kindly cooked them.... not taking the Eurostar back to France every weekday..

[Adventurer]

Back to the Squad:
WOW what a squad- fantastic players and cover in all positions.
And the squad should get better all the time with the age and ability.
So ridiculous when we lose to a team at home like last Saturday- WIGAN for gods sake! UNBELIEVABLE! Awful! TERRIBLE! PATHETIC! SICK! NIGHTMARE! SAD! ARMAGEDDON! THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT SHOULD BE!
Was I upset about the result last weekend

Our squad is capable of beating any other team, home or away- there is no doubt about it.
It is good enough to challenge and win the title.
Unfortunately when we lose to teams like Wigan at HOME and lets be honest, we were very fortunate against Stoke (but were incredibly unfortunate against Man City) it is crazy.
We urgently need to find a way of playing tight and winning those tough games by a goal that MAN U and other top teams seem to be able to do.
I think the coaches need to get a system in place that we can use and depend on when our own positive attacking play is failing us. Make sure the other team cannot score and nick that goal.
WE HAVE A SQUAD AS GOOD AS ANYONE - WE JUST NEED TO SHOW IT.

By the way there is a big debate about world class players and what one is- I think a world class player is one who can get in the worlds top 2 teams. Basically the top 22 players in the world. I would say that Tottenham only has 1 potential WC player at the moment and that is Gareth Bale- actually the way he is playing at the moment I would say not potential but actually is. Others who could maybe knock at the door in the future may be Sandro & Lennon. I do not think anyone else is good enough to be in the top 22 in the world but at a stretch during a certain group of games there might be an argument for Gomes & Modric.