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The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.

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Offline Metalanimal

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2014, 08:00:24 AM »
Our season is fully over, now its really damage limitation for the league.

As our performances we seem to be on a rapid decline game by game, I am not at all hopeful of us even finishing in a Europa league spot as things stand.

If that happens it could be a blessing or a major issue, a blessing so we have few games next season so we can put all our limited resources into the league, but I fear more so a major issue as its shows our rapid decline and may mean key players want out and we will struggle to attract new quality.

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Offline RSS61

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2014, 08:22:38 AM »
Our season is fully over, now its really damage limitation for the league.

As our performances we seem to be on a rapid decline game by game, I am not at all hopeful of us even finishing in a Europa league spot as things stand.

If that happens it could be a blessing or a major issue, a blessing so we have few games next season so we can put all our limited resources into the league, but I fear more so a major issue as its shows our rapid decline and may mean key players want out and we will struggle to attract new quality.

Oh what it is to be a Spurs supporter!

Metal pretty much sums up our predicament. TS finally showed last night that he has absolutely no chance as manager of our club. He has tried every single player, combination of players, systems, coaxing their ego's, slagging them off, squaring up to Benfica's manager. After we get smashed by Ars*nal on Sunday he will probably lamp Levy and go.

Seriously though, in answer to the original thread, yes we are in Terminal decline with this lot, and going in totally the wrong direction.

A total re-think and evaluation of our huge mistakes over the last 2 years is needed.

Starting with Van Gaal.

Offline spursjoolz

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2014, 03:28:43 PM »
This is a doom & gloom thread at his best. I haven't seen one of those since the fellow with the Jack Russell!

Having said that, you are too far from the truth and we have to be prepared to face even more damage starting with our game on Sunday. (or NOT?)

As far as Sherwood is concerned, this is getting to him in a big way and it will no doubt get worse if these scorelines are maintained.

Obviously the season is not over yet, but when (not if) ManU overtakes us, then it will be over for sure!

Offline Glenn R

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2014, 04:57:32 PM »
Somebody on here said that our season is over now; I am afraid it was over long before the Benfica game. We should now be planning on next season.

I was at the game yesterday and I was talking to somebody who has been going since the 40s and I said to him; we won't make the top 4 and he replied "We'll be bloody lucky if we make the top 7". We can't right off either Everton or United. Both have games in hand and we've got Ars*nal this weekend.
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Offline Metalanimal

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2014, 06:15:50 PM »
Somebody on here said that our season is over now; I am afraid it was over long before the Benfica game. We should now be planning on next season.

I was at the game yesterday and I was talking to somebody who has been going since the 40s and I said to him; we won't make the top 4 and he replied "We'll be bloody lucky if we make the top 7". We can't right off either Everton or United. Both have games in hand and we've got Ars*nal this weekend.

Our chances of achieving what we set out to do this season is over!

Unless of course the target was to regress by 10 years and f**k everything up then its mission accomplished!
THFC "COYS" and that is all I have to say about that!

Offline THBN

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2014, 06:43:30 PM »
Harry Redknapp is and was a 'now' manager, he wants proven experienced players who will do a job for him now, youth is a distinct second choice. That however leaves an old squad that need overhauling wherever he goes.

There is nothing wrong with that approach but it does nothing for a clubs future. It served us at the time to do a job, it got us to playing in the Champions League, a feat no other manager has achieved.

Daniel Levy needed a manager who would reduce the age of a team and build the clubs future in the manner Ars*nal have done. With an ageing side you constantly have to re-invent it and that is not a recipe for ongoing success.

First that was Andre Villas-Boas and when he took us backwards, Tim Sherwood took over on what is a temporary appointment in all but name.

We hurt just as Liverpool hurt last season but to take the club forward and build something it was the right decision.

Unfortunately AVB was not the right choice, we all thought he was and we were wrong as well so to criticise an appointment we were virtually all in favour of is only doing so with hindsight.

Bale stayed an extra season and we didn't get Champions League he then simply refused to wear a Spurs shirt again to force his move so Levy had no option but to sell, Modric refused to play and we kept him for an extra season and failed to get Champions League and Van Der Vaart went to Germany to try and save his marriage so you can hardly blame him for that, or stand in his way,

Harry wasn't given £100 million because we didn't have £100 million, we hadn't sold Bale by then. He has never had a youthful side, it's always old men. He never builds for the future, no club has had a future he's left, they have all had to rebuild.

However I do like your assessment of this season. sounds very accurate. Tim has always been an interim manager, albeit the wrong one, and the players clearly know it so aren't bothered, except for a few. It a question of wait for Van Gaal or Prandelli in the summer and endure more pain for the rest of this season.
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Offline Glenn R

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2014, 07:41:54 PM »
Somebody on here said that our season is over now; I am afraid it was over long before the Benfica game. We should now be planning on next season.

I was at the game yesterday and I was talking to somebody who has been going since the 40s and I said to him; we won't make the top 4 and he replied "We'll be bloody lucky if we make the top 7". We can't right off either Everton or United. Both have games in hand and we've got Ars*nal this weekend.

Our chances of achieving what we set out to do this season is over!

Unless of course the target was to regress by 10 years and f**k everything up then its mission accomplished!

I think it was over when they sacked AVB. Whether you think Sherwood is a good manager or not he, like AVB, would need years to build a team to challenge for top honours.
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
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Regrets, I’ve had a few;
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I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline Metalanimal

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2014, 09:00:54 PM »
Will any manager be afforded the required time to build and bond a team, whilst Levy is about I dont think so!

Quick fix, right results and lots of yes Mr Levy , no Mr Levy and few requests for transfer funds or its bye bye, next!
THFC "COYS" and that is all I have to say about that!

Offline Blackjack

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2014, 11:13:25 PM »
Harry Redknapp is and was a 'now' manager, he wants proven experienced players who will do a job for him now, youth is a distinct second choice. That however leaves an old squad that need overhauling wherever he goes.

There is nothing wrong with that approach but it does nothing for a clubs future. It served us at the time to do a job, it g
ot us to playing in the Champions League, a feat no other manager has achieved.

Daniel Levy needed a manager who would reduce the age of a team and build the clubs future in the manner Ars*nal have done. With an ageing side you constantly have to re-invent it and that is not a recipe for ongoing success.

First that was Andre Villas-Boas and when he took us backwards, Tim Sherwood took over on what is a temporary appointment in all but name.

We hurt just as Liverpool hurt last season but to take the club forward and build something it was the right decision.

Unfortunately AVB was not the right choice, we all thought he was and we were wrong as well so to criticise an appointment we were virtually all in favour of is only doing so with hindsight.

Bale stayed an extra season and we didn't get Champions League he then simply refused to wear a Spurs shirt again to force his move so Levy had no option but to sell, Modric refused to play and we kept him for an extra season and failed to get Champions League and Van Der Vaart went to Germany to try and save his marriage so you can hardly blame him for that, or stand in his way,

Harry wasn't given £100 million because we didn't have £100 million, we hadn't sold Bale by then. He has never had a youthful side, it's always old men. He never builds for the future, no club has had a future he's left, they have all had to rebuild.

However I do like your assessment of this season. sounds very accurate. Tim has always been an interim manager, albeit the wrong one, and the players clearly know it so aren't bothered, except for a few. It a question of wait for Van Gaal or Prandelli in the summer and endure more pain for the rest of this season.



I'm afraid I dissagree with a lot of this,  you need to have experience in the team to bring the youth players on, they take them under thete wing, share what they have
Learned and help with the mental state and behavior.  You cannot disemble any team , throw in so many new players and expect perfection!,  Ars*nal have been grooming a young team but they have been doing it over 10 years, no manager is going to be able to get a full young team. Harry was the right man or at least the best we could hope for, he had us going in the right direction, he would never have bought so many players and put them straight into the team! . Plus the players he brought in where proven quality and they produced it!, that was no fluke that was down to years of experience, his team had a good understanding and the got players in where they where needed!. Look at us now, directors of football , chairmens who want a team made up by them, but what they fail to realise is the players the want play a certain way and have played for a team that's the finished article!, spurs are now a jigsaw , pieces here pieces there which are just being thrown together to see if they fit. How on earth is any manager going to turn this around?. I was behind Sherwood but we need an Alex fergusson here, a miracle, a manager that gets the players head straight, gets them to play in the position they where bought to play in, get a team formation and stick to it, get a first 11 and keep to it, no more tinkering ever game, play the best players every week to get the confidence up so there quality comes out on the pitch, and most of all go back to basics , go through every players job , the doos and the donts, no more blind passes, no more passing the ball at short distances 90 mph! Look up before you pass to see where your team mate is, no more standing still, no more bunching up, pass and move pass and move, no more taking an extra touch!, no more turning your back to goal, no more taking a man on in your own half, no more passing the ball to a player surrounded by the opposition were no Barcelona!, no more realying on the keeper to boot it up field because we have nowhere to go! Teach the players to cross a football, teach them how to propelly controll a football , and most of all to use there head, if it dosent look right don't do it.
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Offline THBN

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2014, 11:45:48 PM »
Having a team full of old players is not the same as having some youth and some experienced players. Harry plays with mainly old men not the mixture you are trying to suggest. Turning down Suarez because he wasn't sure sums his management up completely and I was one happy under Harry. But I understand why he went, he should have been in jail afterall.

Nobody has asked for perfection, but if you are suggesting a season is not long enough to gel then I'm afraid that is just an excuse. Poor tactics are the reason we have been poor. We bought a striker and then didn't pass to him which is utter crazyness. Inverted wingers so we had no width and didn't therefore have any holes to play balls through the defence. All we did was pass the ball about in front of the opposition. That was not down to experience, it was not down to the players, it was down to inept tactics.

A manager will turn it sound because the players will play for a manager when we appoint one. We don't have one, we have an interim manager, he has always been an interim manager and players are not interested in playing for an interim manager who has never managed. We are seeing the result of that. Sherwood should never have been appointed in the first place but he will have to take everything on the chin and muddle through.

Harry Kane or Eriksen as number 10, hang on let me think about that tough choice!

We will have a manager when Louis Van Gaal is appointed but playing the same 11 each week will mean a pissed off squad you can't rely on. Football has changed, it is no longer an 11 man game. Society has changed, everybody wants everything now, football is just mirroring society.

As a manager you have to show progress, if you show progress you get more time, it's quite simple. Don't show progress and you are out. It's the same at every club, Spurs are no different. If you have taken a side backwards in 18 months then you are not up to the task.

What is happening at the moment is pretty irrelevant, half the players are just going through the motions and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that.

We will see a team again next season.
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Offline dimexi

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2014, 04:33:09 AM »
Harry Redknapp is and was a 'now' manager, he wants proven experienced players who will do a job for him now, youth is a distinct second choice. That however leaves an old squad that need overhauling wherever he goes.



This is one of the best arguments for Harry I have come across. You are absolutely correct, Harry was a 'now' manager. Do you know why that is the best kind to have? Because now is all there is. If you want to win things you need a side that can play on that day, not next year or the one after that. Of course it does not mean you do not have young players, it just means you buy the right young player, who can play, guess what? now! While he is still manager, your team will be the best it can be, simple. In Fact I would say Alex Fergusson was a now manager too, probably the best one there has ever been. Did he player Beckham, scholes and giggs because they would be good in a few years? No.

I disagree that he only bought old players, as I think he bought players he could trust to do the job, that were also at a price Daniel short arms deep pockets Levy was willing to give him. Yes, there were players who needed to be replaced, the side needed an injection of youth. But for Levy that means buying an unproven younster, who may become the next Bale money machine. Whereas a manager like Redknapp would want a player who could already play at the standard required, and if you want to compete that means spending real money.

You stated that nearly everyone thought AVB was the right appointment at the time. I think you are way off base here. I think lots of people thought it was wrong from the start, then there was the majority, who were apprehensive, but got behind him, because they thought it was worth giving him a chance and then there was a minority who backed fully and believed in him completely. (by the way, are you actually writing under a pseudonym Voice?)

 ;)

 
Maybe next year...

Offline dimexi

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2014, 04:41:06 AM »


I think it was over when they sacked AVB. Whether you think Sherwood is a good manager or not he, like AVB, would need years to build a team to challenge for top honours.

Really Vopice, do you really think that was the moment our season was over. The sacking of AVB? Come on we were spiraling out of control. Granted AVB started off okay, but I think that was largely due to the quality of the squad and belief they had from Harry. He clearly was unable to keep that going and was found lacking in so many areas.

Spurs should not have needed years to challenge for the top honours, because the side he inherited was already on the cusp of that ability. The fact that we failed to keep progressing is not solely down to AVB but from where we were to where we are now, is a rapid decline of gargantuan proportions. I blame Levy 75% AVB 15% Us fans for not making more of an issue of this 10%
Maybe next year...

Offline Glenn R

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2014, 04:54:35 PM »


I think it was over when they sacked AVB. Whether you think Sherwood is a good manager or not he, like AVB, would need years to build a team to challenge for top honours.

Really Vopice, do you really think that was the moment our season was over. The sacking of AVB? Come on we were spiraling out of control. Granted AVB started off okay, but I think that was largely due to the quality of the squad and belief they had from Harry. He clearly was unable to keep that going and was found lacking in so many areas.

Spurs should not have needed years to challenge for the top honours, because the side he inherited was already on the cusp of that ability. The fact that we failed to keep progressing is not solely down to AVB but from where we were to where we are now, is a rapid decline of gargantuan proportions. I blame Levy 75% AVB 15% Us fans for not making more of an issue of this 10%

Yes, you are right; we inherited and then sold. If we had built on what we had then we might be talking about a lot higher than 4th.

As for AVB; who knows? All we've got is speculation and that would depend on ones feelings on AVB.

Concerning AVB; anybody will tell you that you can't buy 8 new players and then expect to embed them in within a season.
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Offline RSS61

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2014, 01:04:47 PM »


I think it was over when they sacked AVB. Whether you think Sherwood is a good manager or not he, like AVB, would need years to build a team to challenge for top honours.

Really Vopice, do you really think that was the moment our season was over. The sacking of AVB? Come on we were spiraling out of control. Granted AVB started off okay, but I think that was largely due to the quality of the squad and belief they had from Harry. He clearly was unable to keep that going and was found lacking in so many areas.

Spurs should not have needed years to challenge for the top honours, because the side he inherited was already on the cusp of that ability. The fact that we failed to keep progressing is not solely down to AVB but from where we were to where we are now, is a rapid decline of gargantuan proportions. I blame Levy 75% AVB 15% Us fans for not making more of an issue of this 10%

The reason we WERE doing alright under AVB was simple. Gareth Bale. From day 1 this season we have been crap. Papering over the cracks. Best defence in the league they were saying back in October, having a laugh !! Scoring under 1 goal a game, mostly from the pen spot. 5-0, 6-0 was just waiting to happen, and it did. Therefore he had to sack AVB. What else could he do ?? Following that, no choice other than Sherwood to finish the season.
To try and integrate 7 new players of unproven prem standard was a huge risk.

The only way now is to bring in Van Gaal and pick up the pieces. Get a LB CB(maybe) left winger, creative midfielder and Striker, and sell any of the 7 we can.

Offline Glenn R

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Re: The decline of Spurs!,Are we really going in the right direction?.
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2014, 04:17:24 PM »


I think it was over when they sacked AVB. Whether you think Sherwood is a good manager or not he, like AVB, would need years to build a team to challenge for top honours.

Really Vopice, do you really think that was the moment our season was over. The sacking of AVB? Come on we were spiraling out of control. Granted AVB started off okay, but I think that was largely due to the quality of the squad and belief they had from Harry. He clearly was unable to keep that going and was found lacking in so many areas.

Spurs should not have needed years to challenge for the top honours, because the side he inherited was already on the cusp of that ability. The fact that we failed to keep progressing is not solely down to AVB but from where we were to where we are now, is a rapid decline of gargantuan proportions. I blame Levy 75% AVB 15% Us fans for not making more of an issue of this 10%

The reason we WERE doing alright under AVB was simple. Gareth Bale. From day 1 this season we have been crap. Papering over the cracks. Best defence in the league they were saying back in October, having a laugh !! Scoring under 1 goal a game, mostly from the pen spot. 5-0, 6-0 was just waiting to happen, and it did. Therefore he had to sack AVB. What else could he do ?? Following that, no choice other than Sherwood to finish the season.
To try and integrate 7 new players of unproven prem standard was a huge risk.

The only way now is to bring in Van Gaal and pick up the pieces. Get a LB CB(maybe) left winger, creative midfielder and Striker, and sell any of the 7 we can.

What concerns me is Sherwood's inexperience. The trouble is we don't know what will happen if he stays for next season. We would be gambling. Great if he pulls it off. But if he doesn't?

I can't think of another top 4 club that has gambled on an inexperienced manager. Maybe Levy has an alternative motive for his appointment?
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.