Turning a new leaf at SN

[dimexi]

A new topic was being discussed on another thread, about making SN a better forum for all. There were some good points raised by Metal, Riff and others. So that thread can get back on track, maybe we should continue that discussion here.

The aim of this thread is not to bitch and moan at individuals for how they have been on the forum previously. I am sure that at times I have played my part in reducing the quality of SN, as have others. But I think now we should all try to turn a new leaf. To let old discussions and personal opinions of each other to start afresh. We should use this time, before next season to look at the positive changes we can all individually make, to improve SN as well as collectively working together towards that same aim. So next season we can see new members coming to the site, feeling welcome and wanting to stay, as well as hopefully seeing the return of some old friends.

Without trying to sound all 'Braveheart' like,

But who is with me?

[Glenn R]

I am with you. But the rules must reflect what the forum wants. Different people have different ideas and expectations.

I know what I've been criticised of what others have done. This is a good forum with good members but we need guidelines and rules to reflect what people want and expect. At the same time this forum needs to attract new members. If we don't have guidelines then other members will criticise others for not following imaginary rules that is an individual members preference.

I run my own forum and been a mod and admin on others. So I know how hard it is.

At the moment I follow and respect what the forum rules demands.

The comments I have read are  individual comments or criticism; each member having their own idea.

But I totally support whatever is done, and what the rules say, in the best interest of this forum and getting new members.

[dimexi]

So a good starting point is to maybe have a look at the forum rules, and adjust and update them if necessary. I think this would have to be organised by admin, if they are willing?

[dimexi]

These are the rules set out by Biggs, they generally look pretty sound, but if there are any suggestions for changes, or highlighting those that are not being adhered to or enforced strongly enough, that may be a good starting point?

'The community of SpursNetwork generally has a high tolerance level for the queens English and tries to support a humorous view on the mannerisms of it's members. Unfortunately there are some limits to our tolerance, to which simple rules can be applied.

Mind your manners.
We do not post Illicit material, including illegal downloads and so on.
We do not insult our fellow members with foul language or provocations.
We do not spam the forums.
Trolling and unnecessary posting will not be tolerated (i.e creating arguments for no reason). Warnings, suspensions or even permanent bans will be issued if deemed appropriate by senior staff. This also applies to heated arguments around teams, be they club or international. Keep it civil.
We do not promote racism and will clamp down on anyone showing any sort.
Think before you post; we're a friendly bunch, is your post going to contribute or detract from the community feel?
Text Speak; This place isn't a mobile phone, so type in a manor that doesn't require a code-breaker to understand what the hell you are trying to say.
Any member found to be in breach of these rules, may receive a warning which can lead to dismissal from this site.
All posts will be monitored.
Any posts or threads deemed inappropriate will be closed or deleted at the discretion of the staff team. You may or may not receive notification of this happening.
Advertising other sites without prior permission from a senior member of staff will be dealt with harshly. This includes other league sites, affiliate schemes and other such sites. Ask before you post.
The board of Admins decision is final.'

[Glenn R]

These are the rules set out by Biggs, they generally look pretty sound, but if there are any suggestions for changes, or highlighting those that are not being adhered to or enforced strongly enough, that may be a good starting point?

'The community of SpursNetwork generally has a high tolerance level for the queens English and tries to support a humorous view on the mannerisms of it's members. Unfortunately there are some limits to our tolerance, to which simple rules can be applied.

Mind your manners.
We do not post Illicit material, including illegal downloads and so on.
We do not insult our fellow members with foul language or provocations.
We do not spam the forums.
Trolling and unnecessary posting will not be tolerated (i.e creating arguments for no reason). Warnings, suspensions or even permanent bans will be issued if deemed appropriate by senior staff. This also applies to heated arguments around teams, be they club or international. Keep it civil.
We do not promote racism and will clamp down on anyone showing any sort.
Think before you post; we're a friendly bunch, is your post going to contribute or detract from the community feel?
Text Speak; This place isn't a mobile phone, so type in a manor that doesn't require a code-breaker to understand what the hell you are trying to say.
Any member found to be in breach of these rules, may receive a warning which can lead to dismissal from this site.
All posts will be monitored.
Any posts or threads deemed inappropriate will be closed or deleted at the discretion of the staff team. You may or may not receive notification of this happening.
Advertising other sites without prior permission from a senior member of staff will be dealt with harshly. This includes other league sites, affiliate schemes and other such sites. Ask before you post.
The board of Admins decision is final.'

I agree that tolerance of rules need to be defined. As I said I always wrote in the good spirit of the forum rules, or how they can be interpreted.

On my forum and others we always allow members to have a say in the interest of the forum and the betterment of the forum.

I would add one thing though; whatever way the rules are interpreted they should be for all, and not just the few. I say this because I've seen criticism; only for the person who has criticised do exactly what they've condemned somebody else in doing.

Also; some say that they want a discussion and not a debate. But a debate, according to the dictionary, is a discussion. Maybe, as somebody suggested, we have a debate/ discussion section. But that would have to be defined very clearly.

Whatever is decided we want to encourage members to join, not alienate.

[Chelmsford_yid]

Nice one guy's 


I await your ideas & thoughts. 

[RiffHard]

These are the rules set out by Biggs, they generally look pretty sound, but if there are any suggestions for changes, or highlighting those that are not being adhered to or enforced strongly enough, that may be a good starting point?

'The community of SpursNetwork generally has a high tolerance level for the queens English and tries to support a humorous view on the mannerisms of it's members. Unfortunately there are some limits to our tolerance, to which simple rules can be applied.

Mind your manners.
We do not post Illicit material, including illegal downloads and so on.
We do not insult our fellow members with foul language or provocations.
We do not spam the forums.
Trolling and unnecessary posting will not be tolerated (i.e creating arguments for no reason). Warnings, suspensions or even permanent bans will be issued if deemed appropriate by senior staff. This also applies to heated arguments around teams, be they club or international. Keep it civil.
We do not promote racism and will clamp down on anyone showing any sort.
Think before you post; we're a friendly bunch, is your post going to contribute or detract from the community feel?
Text Speak; This place isn't a mobile phone, so type in a manor that doesn't require a code-breaker to understand what the hell you are trying to say.
Any member found to be in breach of these rules, may receive a warning which can lead to dismissal from this site.
All posts will be monitored.
Any posts or threads deemed inappropriate will be closed or deleted at the discretion of the staff team. You may or may not receive notification of this happening.
Advertising other sites without prior permission from a senior member of staff will be dealt with harshly. This includes other league sites, affiliate schemes and other such sites. Ask before you post.
The board of Admins decision is final.'

Basically these are the rules I've been referring to when I've modified/deleted posts and given warnings. These are basic rules for every forum and we are a forum like any other - a group of people who support the same cause and/or love the same thing. For us this is Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. And I have to give credit to supporters of other teams who have sometimes contributed as they've all behaved much better than many of our members.

Anyway, I'm thinking that we could have one of the most interesting seasons ahead and as we all know supporting Spurs is sometimes more heartbreaking than supporting (let's say) Manchester United. We, supporters should be a close bunch and by that I'm not saying everybody has to have the same opinion. I love discussion, but I cannot stand arguing for the sake of it. I also don't enjoy reading posts which say something like Huddlestone is crap and Keane is not good enough without explaining why one thinks so. I like people giving reasons. Spouting something out without giving your causes seems like a lack of intelligence to me.

So, guys (and girls, if there still are any), let's turn a new page. Season 2013/2014 starts in about two months and we still have time. Also, bring your buddies who haven't registered along.

[Glenn R]

Basically these are the rules I've been referring to when I've modified/deleted posts and given warnings. These are basic rules for every forum and we are a forum like any other - a group of people who support the same cause and/or love the same thing. For us this is Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. And I have to give credit to supporters of other teams who have sometimes contributed as they've all behaved much better than many of our members.

I agree with your sentiments above so one of the things I did do is look at other Spurs forums; they have debates/ discussions and even arguments. And a lot of them are packed with members. So either this forum is going to be different (with no discussion/ debate) or this forum will be as you want; a forum like any other.
We all have a love for Spurs and we all want Spurs to do well, and yes, I agree that we will have an interesting season.
If members should modify how they discuss things then clear guidelines must be drawn up otherwise you will get confusion; as has happened so far.

Like you I use the rules or refer to them in how I reply.
As for letting other Spurs fans know about this forum; I do that when I go to Spurs. I’ll have to print some cards off to give people, otherwise they forget. I might also be worth trying to contact Spurs to see if they will print your web page?

[dimexi]

I think that most of the rules are self explanatory and require no further changes or clarification. The breaking of rules 1 or 3 should be automatic suspension. For all other rules a warning should be sufficient. However I think that the following rules need further discussion:

Rule 6

Think before you post; we're a friendly bunch, is your post going to contribute or detract from the community feel?

I think that we should promote rule 6 throughout the site, maybe have the ‘think before you post’ slogan placed somewhere would be a gentle reminder.

Rule 4

4.   Trolling and unnecessary posting will not be tolerated (i.e creating arguments for no reason). Warnings, suspensions or even permanent bans will be issued if deemed appropriate by senior staff. This also applies to heated arguments around teams, be they club or international. Keep it civil.

I think that Rule 4 is an area that needs greater understanding and a clearer guideline for what is acceptable and what is not. This refers back to rule 6 as well as a guideline too. I think that more could be done to discourage certain forum behaviour, without it getting to the point of permanent bans.

Rule 13

I would also like a new rule added to make it explicit that continually repeating the same statements or telling us the same information again and again, will also resort in possible action. I know sometimes things are worth mentioning again, but let’s keep it within some degree of control. A rule of 3 would be good here. If someone says the same thing 3 times a fellow member can make it known to admin to look into.

I know we do not want to feel that our viewpoints are under the scrutiny of the forum police, but I think that respecting each other should be a given and if you have said something 3 times you have had your chance to put that point across.

Riff I agree that people should have to back up their opinions, not necessarily with facts but when others read those statements it helps if they are able to have some information to why that person feels that way. That way, even if you disagree you can at least try to empathise with the position. Finally Riff I believe that you have always tried to be fair and balanced when moderating and think that if we can start working together as a forum, your job, enjoyment and contribution will be far easier.

[Glenn R]

I think that most of the rules are self explanatory and require no further changes or clarification. The breaking of rules 1 or 3 should be automatic suspension. For all other rules a warning should be sufficient. However I think that the following rules need further discussion:

Rule 6

Think before you post; we're a friendly bunch, is your post going to contribute or detract from the community feel?

I think that we should promote rule 6 throughout the site, maybe have the ‘think before you post’ slogan placed somewhere would be a gentle reminder.

Rule 4

4.   Trolling and unnecessary posting will not be tolerated (i.e creating arguments for no reason). Warnings, suspensions or even permanent bans will be issued if deemed appropriate by senior staff. This also applies to heated arguments around teams, be they club or international. Keep it civil.

I think that Rule 4 is an area that needs greater understanding and a clearer guideline for what is acceptable and what is not. This refers back to rule 6 as well as a guideline too. I think that more could be done to discourage certain forum behaviour, without it getting to the point of permanent bans.

Rule 13

I would also like a new rule added to make it explicit that continually repeating the same statements or telling us the same information again and again, will also resort in possible action. I know sometimes things are worth mentioning again, but let’s keep it within some degree of control. A rule of 3 would be good here. If someone says the same thing 3 times a fellow member can make it known to admin to look into.

I know we do not want to feel that our viewpoints are under the scrutiny of the forum police, but I think that respecting each other should be a given and if you have said something 3 times you have had your chance to put that point across.

Riff I agree that people should have to back up their opinions, not necessarily with facts but when others read those statements it helps if they are able to have some information to why that person feels that way. That way, even if you disagree you can at least try to empathise with the position. Finally Riff I believe that you have always tried to be fair and balanced when moderating and think that if we can start working together as a forum, your job, enjoyment and contribution will be far easier.

It will all go down to interpretation. If you don’t like somebody you can interpret in a way so that you can jump on them, while, say a friend, can say something similar and his words are over looked. That is fine to a point; but once other members/ new members catch on then it could damage the forum.
How do you decide what is going to detract from the forum?
What is an argument to some is a discussion by others and friendly banter. Are all members going to be treated fairly and equally? I know I’ve been accused for some things that I’ve witnessed others doing. As I said if you check out other Spurs forums they are robust, debatable/ discussion-able. Another thing; how you worded your post will bar hell of a lot of Spurs fans.
If you want this forum kept small and exclusive then those rules will work. As I have said I’ve been on forums for years and what you’ve suggested has been tried, tested and failed… those didn’t fail were kept going by just friends.

[dimexi]

Voice this is part of the problem. This thread in particular should be clear of unnecessary debate. Rather it should be about people saying what they would like to see changed, to make this forum a more inviting and positive one. All I have done is highlighted the rules which I think should be further promoted or defined and then put forward a rule which I think should be added. Rather than attack my suggestions, please try and put forward your own.


Then we can trust the admin to decide if any changes to the rules are necessary, based on the feedback they receive.

[spursjoolz]

There will always be differences of opinions which may or may not bring an argumenet or heated debate. When 2 people disagree on a specific point arguments occur.  For those of us who are lucky to be married, we know what it's all about.

[Glenn R]

Voice this is part of the problem. This thread in particular should be clear of unnecessary debate. Rather it should be about people saying what they would like to see changed, to make this forum a more inviting and positive one. All I have done is highlighted the rules which I think should be further promoted or defined and then put forward a rule which I think should be added. Rather than attack my suggestions, please try and put forward your own.


Then we can trust the admin to decide if any changes to the rules are necessary, based on the feedback they receive.

I understand that, but this section is for improving the forum and also the need of new members. If somebody comes up with ideas shouldn't we see if there is any holes in their arguments? There are similar ideas on other forums; somebody puts their opinions up and they are observed and if somebody sees flaws in certain points they are pointed out. If I said this forum should do such and such a thing and it was totally stupid then I would welcome constructive criticism. Otherwise the forum will just go ahead blindly. Otherwise we might as well just PM admin and let them have a lucky dip.

[Glenn R]

There will always be differences of opinions which may or may not bring an argumenet or heated debate. When 2 people disagree on a specific point arguments occur.  For those of us who are lucky to be married, we know what it's all about.

Why argument? Why not constructive discussion? I suppose that depends on who you are married to and how hostile you are towards them. I prefer to look at things in a more positive light.

[dimexi]

I understand that, but this section is for improving the forum and also the need of new members. If somebody comes up with ideas shouldn't we see if there is any holes in their arguments? There are similar ideas on other forums; somebody puts their opinions up and they are observed and if somebody sees flaws in certain points they are pointed out. If I said this forum should do such and such a thing and it was totally stupid then I would welcome constructive criticism. Otherwise the forum will just go ahead blindly. Otherwise we might as well just PM admin and let them have a lucky dip.

Okay to a certain extent, just don't try so hard to find imaginary holes. Constructive feedback is all well and good.

You said it is all down to interpretation. Rule 6 was just about promoting a healthy and friendly ethos, so I cannot see where the holes are in me saying that.  However, interpretation will always be a factor in the grey areas of rule 4 whereas rules 1 and 3 are very black and white.

My idea for rule 13, was because there are a few posters, who repeat themselves a bit. However, there are times when you need to make the point again, in another way, maybe to get it more clearly across. Hence the idea for the rule of 3.

So what did I say that would bar hell a lot of spurs fans? What do you mean exactly?