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A cap on away ticket prices

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Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 05:40:47 PM »
I just don't understand how this equals itself out. It simply does not, the maths does not add up. Yes you can say that Spurs will be no better off, but they would also be no worse off either. The difference to each clubs finances remains exactly the same, nothing lost nothing gained. However, the fans themselves will be supporting their own club, whether watching at home or away. With the amount of money varying depending on the team you support, which is your choice to do or not. Nothing you have said answers that idea. You have only said - that is the way it is so except it.
How can you say that Spurs would be no better off or worse off? Spurs would get the money so that is more money for them. I am sure you would agree with me the more money Spurs gets the more can be used on transfers etc.

Quote
I am not sure if a realist defines your stance to be fair. In most posts I would say you were generally an optimist. (which isn't a bad thing) However, If you are trying to link our market society with Darwin, I bit of research in this area will soon have you seeing that this economic and monetary system is due for an evolutionary change. And anyway, Darwin's theory although very good, is still just a theory and current research suggests that it isn't as accurate as previously thought. (just the best idea we have had yet)
An in what way is an economic and monetary system due for a change? Socialist have been saying this for ages. What happened they changed their position.
Darwin’s theory isn’t just a theory but reality.
“In everyday usage, “theory” often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, “I have a theory about why that happened,” they are often drawing a conclusion based on partial or inconclusive evidence. Scientists have hunches, too, but they call them hypotheses, which are the starting point of all good science.
 
A scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. A scientific theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that unifies a vast body of reliable knowledge. In other words, a theory is born when a substantial number of hypotheses point to the same conclusion.”

I presume by that statement that you are religious and don’t believe in evolution.

I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline dimexi

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 08:42:03 PM »
How can you say that Spurs would be no better off or worse off? Spurs would get the money so that is more money for them. I am sure you would agree with me the more money Spurs gets the more can be used on transfers etc.

Maybe I have not been clear enough in my explanation, but the reason I can say that spurs would be no better or no worse off than they are currently, would work out as follows:

( I have used lower numbers just to show what I mean.)

Current system.
Spurs has 5 home games + 5 Away games.
Home game = 100 visiting fans paying £50 per ticket = Spurs get from away fans £5000 x 5 games = £25,000
Away game = 100 travelling spurs fans paying £150 per ticket = Spurs get nothing from these sales.
Cost to spurs fan = £750

New system:
Home game = 100 visiting fans paying £150 per ticket = Spurs get nothing from these sales.
Away games = 100 travelling spurs fans paying £50 per ticket = Spurs get from their own travelling fans £5000 x 5 games = £25,000 (Exactly the same amount)
Cost to Spurs fan = £350
We as a club still make the same money but the fans get the benefit. The fans for the club who charge £150 for a ticket, would have to put pressure on their own club, or like you have said, choose not to go.

An in what way is an economic and monetary system due for a change? Socialist have been saying this for ages. What happened they changed their position.


Not sure if you have noticed but the system is on the brink of collapse across the world. Money equals debt, the system is designed in a way that ensures that bankruptcy and failed payments are inevitable. To summarise our money system requires us to keep printing more and more money. As we do so, its value decreases. Hence the reason for inflation. The problem is that the money is created as a debt and interest is due to be paid on that debt. How do we get the money to pay for this debt? Well we have to print more money and create more debt of course. And so on and so on. For joe blogs this means a problem. The bank say creates a money system and lends 10 people £100 each total £1000. But the bank want to be paid 10% interest on that loan. So each person has to pay back £110. So each person has to buy and sell, make money and try to turn their £100 into £110. Which will inevitably mean that at least 1 person will lose their £100 to pay the interest for all the others and be left broke.

The other problem with the current system is that due to the resources on the planet being finite, current economics and commerce has to keep finding new things for us to buy in to. Hence the drive to have new phones, the latest tv and the fact that many products have a short life. Things are not built to last. As we keep doing this, there are fewer and fewer resources for us to exploit and make us spend money on having these items. There is loads of information on this, if you look outside the usual economic doctrines and banks, who will try to make sure it stays as it is for as long as possible.

Here are a few starting links:

Ron Paul farewell speech to U.S. congress. Talks about the change needed in the monetary system

Congressman Ron Paul's Farewell Speech to Congress 360p

Charles Eisenstein author of sacred economics, talks about money system and a value system

Sacred Economics: An Evening with Charles Eisenstein

Zeitgeist movies. Lots of very interesting information contained. Worth a look, but keep an open mind. Expect to reject some ideas but take from it anything you find useful.

http://www.watchzeitgeist.com/

http://www.lietaer.com/2010/09/what-is-the-problem-with-our-current-money-system/


Darwin’s theory isn’t just a theory but reality.
“In everyday usage, “theory” often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, “I have a theory about why that happened,” they are often drawing a conclusion based on partial or inconclusive evidence. Scientists have hunches, too, but they call them hypotheses, which are the starting point of all good science.
 
A scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. A scientific theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that unifies a vast body of reliable knowledge. In other words, a theory is born when a substantial number of hypotheses point to the same conclusion.”

I presume by that statement that you are religious and don’t believe in evolution.

Why would you think that I didn’t believe in evolution? In fact why would you need to believe in evolution at all? If it is scientifically accurate, belief does not come into it at all. I am fully aware of how the hypothesis/theory system works in science. One of sciences greatest mantras is the way in which a theory is adopted and taken on as the current mode of thinking, but is then willing to change, as new and more accurate theories come along which prove to be more useful. So your claim that it is not a theory but reality, is not true. It is just the current reality, until something else comes along to change it. So I am not for one minute saying that Darwin’s theory is wrong, I have no way to dispute it. In fact what Darwin did was remarkable in showing how different species adapted, changed and evolved. I think Darwin’s evolution is by far our best interpretation of how life continues to survive.

However, Darwin’s theory does not really explain how the evolution happens, it suggests the idea that the changes which occur, happen through accidental mutations. Which I have always personally felt lacked a little science if you catch my drift? The rest is wonderful, some of the best scientific writing on the natural world. Current thinking across the sciences, from quantum theory to the latest biological understanding of how genes work, is suggesting a change in that aspect of Darwin’s theory. It has not come fully to light yet, as more hypothesising and testing needs to occur. But I think there will be a greater understanding of the evolutionary process in the near future.

Making presumptions is always a dangerous game, particularly when it involves contentious topics like religion. But for the record I am about as non-religious as they come. I don’t have a problem with anybody else living the life they want to lead. But religion in its current form is a bit past its sell by date. It does not really serve a purpose in the current world. I am not saying it is wrong, but it most definitely hasn’t got it right in many ways. I have no desire to follow doctrine, or to believe that one religon’s God is actually the real god. Or that man can use this image of God to control how we live and think. No thank you. But I would say that I believe that everything is connected and there is more to the universe than we think. Science has become more aware of this through their deepening understanding. I think that a place where science and spiritual understanding converge is a very good place to see the world from, at least for me. However, I do not believe that science has all the answers and never will. The more we understand the greater we realise we understand very little at all, but I like that.

A bit off the spurs topic, but a welcome diversion.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 08:46:35 PM by dimexi »
Maybe next year...

Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 09:16:11 PM »
Dimexi

Economics
I haven’t got time to go into great detail; but I will say this. Most economists have been saying for years that the capitalist system is going to collapse. I’ll believe it when it happens. Depending on what you read other economists say the reverse. Most of those who are doom-mongers are usually from the left. Matthias’s in the Victorian age said that there would be a food shortage as people expanded throughout the world. What has happened is that science has found ways of making less more. His prophesy has been discredited.

Evolution
I agree with a lot of what you say, like science doesn’t know everything. We must always keep an open mind though.

I agree that there are still some unanswered questions about evolution; like how it happens, but I do believe that science is on the right path. Remember; that Darwin’s theory of evolution was formed in the Victorian age, a drop in the ocean. As years go on science and knowledge advances and we build on what we know.

There are a lot of things out there that we will never know but we shall keep on searching and asking questions; expanding our minds while the philosophers’ try to put the pieces together. Usually the answers they come up with depends on their bias and beliefs.

Concerning fans putting pressure on clubs. So long as clubs are successful then then directors will never listen to their fans. The only time you read about clubs listening is when they are in trouble and the fans are deserting. But as long as stadiums are being filled (at least for the top clubs) then directors like Levy “will know what is best” for their club.
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline baldbloke

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 09:15:26 AM »
I was watching Arsene Wenger being interviewed over the high priced away tickets and I agree with what he said. People have a choice and clubs are a business so if people won’t pay then they don’t have to go. As I said previously; people can vote with their feet.

If top clubs want to compete with the top clubs then they need the money. How many on here would moan if Spurs cut the prices, but we couldn’t compete with the top clubs and started to slide down the league?

Most of the people who complain, but not all of them, don’t go to matches anyway.

Ars*nal, city, United, Spurs and Chelsea sell out their grounds and away tickets get snapped up. What mad fool is going to cut the ticket prices?

There was a time when I couldn’t go to Spurs – because I lost my job (and Spurs high prices). Not once did I wish Spurs to sell cheaper tickets, what I wanted was for Spurs to compete with the best in the league. I still do. Now my circumstances have changed and I can go again. A new stadium will help and if that means ticket prices will go up; so be it. But I bet they will still fill the grounds.

Football is no longer a working man’s sport (as in going to matches) but a rich man’s. If that wasn’t the case clubs would be forced to reduce prices, not increase them. Luckily for the ordinary, man because of the high prices, they are not excluded from seeing their favourite team; we’ve got live coverage and programmes that show the highlights.

Thanks for your comments Mr Levy
AVB OUT, AND TAKE LEVY WITH YOU

Offline baldbloke

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 09:59:12 AM »
Please sign the enclosed petition

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-english-fa-and-the-premier-league-cap-away-ticket-prices-in-the-premier-league-at-30

It isn't going to happen. It is pie in the sky. Clubs are free agents to charge what they want. The only way prices could come down is if the fans voted with their feet. And I can't see that happening any time soon.

And another thing (and this isn't going to be very popular) but football has become a rich man's support. We are a long way from when fans were working class. Tickets now cost - for a top game - £71. And in the next couple of years that price will go up. Poorer fans will stop going and the richer ones will continue. There is a 35,000 waiting list. That will tell you that clubs like Spurs won't put the prices down anytime soon.

In Germany you can get a season ticket for Buyern Munich for 100 euros which includes transport within the City for the day in question. The German league is fantastic and has some of the best players and biggest stadiums in the world. Every club has to make a profit and the Citeh and Chelski scenario's are not permitted. This blows everything you have said out of the water. Remember, only 20%/25% of revenue comes from gate money, so reducing tickets by 20% would in actual fact only represent a small % of total turn over. The Sky money is increasing considerably next year, so there is No reason why prem clubs couldn't start thinking about the supporter for a change.
AVB OUT, AND TAKE LEVY WITH YOU

Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 06:26:55 PM »
I was watching Arsene Wenger being interviewed over the high priced away tickets and I agree with what he said. People have a choice and clubs are a business so if people won’t pay then they don’t have to go. As I said previously; people can vote with their feet.

If top clubs want to compete with the top clubs then they need the money. How many on here would moan if Spurs cut the prices, but we couldn’t compete with the top clubs and started to slide down the league?

Most of the people who complain, but not all of them, don’t go to matches anyway.

Ars*nal, city, United, Spurs and Chelsea sell out their grounds and away tickets get snapped up. What mad fool is going to cut the ticket prices?

There was a time when I couldn’t go to Spurs – because I lost my job (and Spurs high prices). Not once did I wish Spurs to sell cheaper tickets, what I wanted was for Spurs to compete with the best in the league. I still do. Now my circumstances have changed and I can go again. A new stadium will help and if that means ticket prices will go up; so be it. But I bet they will still fill the grounds.

Football is no longer a working man’s sport (as in going to matches) but a rich man’s. If that wasn’t the case clubs would be forced to reduce prices, not increase them. Luckily for the ordinary, man because of the high prices, they are not excluded from seeing their favourite team; we’ve got live coverage and programmes that show the highlights.

Thanks for your comments Mr Levy

As I am Mr Levy be careful as I might revoke your Season ticket...... and in future call me Sir and bow :2funny: :up:
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 06:28:14 PM »
Please sign the enclosed petition

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-english-fa-and-the-premier-league-cap-away-ticket-prices-in-the-premier-league-at-30

It isn't going to happen. It is pie in the sky. Clubs are free agents to charge what they want. The only way prices could come down is if the fans voted with their feet. And I can't see that happening any time soon.

And another thing (and this isn't going to be very popular) but football has become a rich man's support. We are a long way from when fans were working class. Tickets now cost - for a top game - £71. And in the next couple of years that price will go up. Poorer fans will stop going and the richer ones will continue. There is a 35,000 waiting list. That will tell you that clubs like Spurs won't put the prices down anytime soon.

In Germany you can get a season ticket for Buyern Munich for 100 euros which includes transport within the City for the day in question. The German league is fantastic and has some of the best players and biggest stadiums in the world. Every club has to make a profit and the Citeh and Chelski scenario's are not permitted. This blows everything you have said out of the water. Remember, only 20%/25% of revenue comes from gate money, so reducing tickets by 20% would in actual fact only represent a small % of total turn over. The Sky money is increasing considerably next year, so there is No reason why prem clubs couldn't start thinking about the supporter for a change.

Yes, but Spurs are a class act and worth much more than German teams :2funny: :up:
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline davidjmcclure

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2013, 10:57:33 AM »
Ticket prices are prohibitively high.  What with the extra tv revenue next year, everything should be done to bring them down.

Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2013, 06:08:36 PM »
Ticket prices are prohibitively high.  What with the extra tv revenue next year, everything should be done to bring them down.

With a 35,000 waiting list at Spurs and many fans can't get a ticket there is no incentive to lower prices. The only way we will get lower seats if fans started staying away.
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline dimexi

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2013, 07:02:40 PM »


With a 35,000 waiting list at Spurs and many fans can't get a ticket there is no incentive to lower prices. The only way we will get lower seats if fans started staying away.

How sad that this is the way the world is now. But even worse is the fact that there are some, whom although disagree with the current paradigm are also unwilling to carry out action to change it.
Maybe next year...

Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2013, 07:30:36 PM »


With a 35,000 waiting list at Spurs and many fans can't get a ticket there is no incentive to lower prices. The only way we will get lower seats if fans started staying away.

How sad that this is the way the world is now. But even worse is the fact that there are some, whom although disagree with the current paradigm are also unwilling to carry out action to change it.

True; but that is always the way. You can say the same about our local council or the Government. It is because within ourselves we are comfortable and something very drastic has to happen for people to act. A good example of this was the Poll tax.
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

Offline dimexi

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2013, 11:13:19 PM »


True; but that is always the way. You can say the same about our local council or the Government. It is because within ourselves we are comfortable and something very drastic has to happen for people to act. A good example of this was the Poll tax.

Actually is because we are made to feel too comfortable without ourselves. Within ourselves we are not happy, but think that we can become happier by having more things. The poll tax, was a time when people feared they were losing out and woke up to that fact. But it was easy to make the people settle down again. Oh look there is another boom, quick go and buy that sparkly tv...
Maybe next year...

Offline Glenn R

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Re: A cap on away ticket prices
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 06:11:09 PM »


True; but that is always the way. You can say the same about our local council or the Government. It is because within ourselves we are comfortable and something very drastic has to happen for people to act. A good example of this was the Poll tax.

Actually is because we are made to feel too comfortable without ourselves. Within ourselves we are not happy, but think that we can become happier by having more things. The poll tax, was a time when people feared they were losing out and woke up to that fact. But it was easy to make the people settle down again. Oh look there is another boom, quick go and buy that sparkly tv...

I agree with what you say, other than I am happy within myself.
I’ve lived a life that’s full. I’ve travelled each and every highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, I’ve had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.