Time to put your money where your mouth is...

[dimexi]

On November 4th I put my money where my mouth was, so to speak and set a target for Spurs to achieve x number of points before Christmas. The target was to get 14 points from 8 games. If we achieved that I would give my full backing to AVB, regardless of playing style. If we were getting the points on the board then I would allow the team more time to add style to an effective win %.

As it has turned out we have achieved 13 points from those games. So we were close, but not quite there. Of course we easily smashed the 9 point target, which would have metaphorically turned me into the new Baldbloke. Thankfully that did not occur.

However, it does mean that January now becomes important in whether my support of AVB and Levy, increases or decreases from this moment. We are currently not able to achieve the number of points per game required to gain 4th spot. If we did, the 14 points target would have been met, in my opinion. Therefore, action needs to be taken to rectify that gap. Admittedly that gap is not as large as some would propose, but it will need to be filled. Look at the game against stoke. Yes, they are a hard team to beat. But we still had 21 shots, 14 on target. Yet no goals! We need better quality in delivery and better quality and options for finishers. Hence the need (as we have all said) for an attacking playmaker and a quality striker.

If we fail to fill this gap, I will be extremely disappointed and will not be surprised when we will probably finish outside the top 4.
We have 6 games to play before the end of January. So my new target for spurs is this:

12 points – Full support regardless of transfers
9 – 11 points – One major signing needed. Otherwise AVB and Levy out
8 points or less – Two major signings needed. Otherwise AVB and Levy out.

It is now time for Levy to put his money where his mouth is. Will you?

Where do you stand on this issue? Anyone else willing to set out their stall?

[ugs]

We have needed a quality striker since 2 seasons ago and even possibly since Berbatov left so that is a no brainer the fact that Mr Levy hasn't come up with the goods speaks volumes.
 
The fact that we are behind the Woolwich Wanders even when thay have had the worst start to a premier League season under Mr Whinger also speaks volumes, I might also point out that Liverpool are getting rather close and if they are in front of us after your 6 matches well......This is a poor Premier League with only 2 teams competing and probably the best chance we have had for years to challenge at the top and AVB isn't up to it !!!!!
 
Personally I don't think any amount of signings are going to be enough, I stand by my original viewpoint of AVB not being good enough and it was a mistake making him manager !!!!
 
 

[Glenn R]

So far - and as a new manager - I think he is doing a good job. We are in a good position and I can see us building upon this next year. Whatever we all think the end result (end of season) should be the decider.

[dimexi]

We have needed a quality striker since 2 seasons ago and even possibly since Berbatov left so that is a no brainer the fact that Mr Levy hasn't come up with the goods speaks volumes.
 
The fact that we are behind the Woolwich Wanders even when thay have had the worst start to a premier League season under Mr Whinger also speaks volumes, I might also point out that Liverpool are getting rather close and if they are in front of us after your 6 matches well......This is a poor Premier League with only 2 teams competing and probably the best chance we have had for years to challenge at the top and AVB isn't up to it !!!!!
 
Personally I don't think any amount of signings are going to be enough, I stand by my original viewpoint of AVB not being good enough and it was a mistake making him manager !!!!
 
 

So Ugs, you are not willing to specify any situation that would change your mind. Even if we won all 6 games and signed two quality players, your opinion would remain the same? If that is true, fair enough, sad but fair enough.

So far - and as a new manager - I think he is doing a good job. We are in a good position and I can see us building upon this next year. Whatever we all think the end result (end of season) should be the decider.

Whereas you voice are the complete opposite. You are committed to seeing out the whole season. No matter if we lose the next 6 games and sign no one.


Why is it so hard for some people to actually commit themselves to an outcome, something they would have to live with and stick to?

[ugs]

Dimexi as many people on here stated at the start of the season give AVB until Christmas before making your mind up .... I have.
 
I have seen no improvement since the beginning of the season we have stumbled blindly through the League so far and to be fair have had a few good results, but in my opinion we have had many more poor results. I say again in my opinion AVB is not the manager for us his style of football dosen't fit and we do not seem to have any direction or goal. The formation changes the tactics change but still we lack any flair or desire something that I think all can agree we have had for the 2 seasons, the manager does not seem to have a clear plan or outline for the team and sadly that shows in our performances.
 
As for improving the squad Mr Levy rarely puts his hand in his pocket in January and like I say I seriously don't think any recruits will make a difference under AVB he confusues and contradicts in his style of play, too many changes not enough direction !!!!!!
 
I have stuck to my guns and it is now Christmas and AVB hasn't bought me any presents.... I haven't moved the goalposts it was give him till Christmas then decide... I have and no thankyou !!!
 
 

[Glenn R]

Whereas you voice are the complete opposite. You are committed to seeing out the whole season. No matter if we lose the next 6 games and sign no one.

Actually I did say – somewhere else on here – that if Spurs were fighting relegation then we would have to look at the situation again (concerning AVB’s position). I also believe it is sensible to buy someone only if there is the right player available. Which I am sure Levy will do.

Why is it so hard for some people to actually commit themselves to an outcome, something they would have to live with and stick to?

But I have committed myself, you, unfortunately, don’t wish to see it because it is not to your liking. There is a lot going on behind the scenes which we don’t know about and if the club or manager thought it was necessary to buy then they would (which might happen). Remember; Spurs are famous of suggesting that they might not buy and then go out and spend big.

[Glenn R]

Dimexi as many people on here stated at the start of the season give AVB until Christmas before making your mind up .... I have.
 

I have never said that, however, if I had and looking at their position at the moment I would be quite happy.

[baldbloke]

I have seen no improvement since the beginning of the season we have stumbled blindly through the League so far and to be fair have had a few good results, but in my opinion we have had many more poor results. I say again in my opinion AVB is not the manager for us his style of football dosen't fit and we do not seem to have any direction or goal. The formation changes the tactics change but still we lack any flair or desire something that I think all can agree we have had for the 2 seasons, the manager does not seem to have a clear plan or outline for the team and sadly that shows in our performances.
 
As for improving the squad Mr Levy rarely puts his hand in his pocket in January and like I say I seriously don't think any recruits will make a difference under AVB he confusues and contradicts in his style of play, too many changes not enough direction !!!!!!
 
I have stuck to my guns and it is now Christmas and AVB hasn't bought me any presents.... I haven't moved the goalposts it was give him till Christmas then decide... I have and no thankyou !!!
 
 
[/quote]

As stated before, I am a logical thinker, and rarely let my emotions or gut feelings interfere with a decision. In general I agree with what you have said. To the positive, we are in a better position than I would have expected considering our injuries and the loss of Modric and VDV. The replacements to these two players are clearly less talented. To the negative, we have 4 points less than this time last year and are few positions lower. The football is boring to watch, and the atmosphere helps confirm this.

In short, I am far from convinced that AVB is the right person, and if given the chance I would replace him tomorrow with Arry, but that isn't going to happen. I think all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope AVB is learning from his mistakes. Further more, I would like to think the club will at long last actually use the transfer window to strengthen the squad, rather than to make money, but I'm not holding my breath.

[dimexi]

Dimexi as many people on here stated at the start of the season give AVB until Christmas before making your mind up .... I have.
 
 
I have stuck to my guns and it is now Christmas and AVB hasn't bought me any presents.... I haven't moved the goalposts it was give him till Christmas then decide... I have and no thankyou !!!
 
 

You say that you gave AVB till Christmas, but your mind was already made up. When I asked before for you (and others) to name a points tally that would change or keep your opinion the same. You declined to respond. I was not only saying that I would give him till Christmas but named the price on his head. He surpassed that but did not achieve enough to give him my full support till the end of the season. Therefore I have given him till the end of January to convince me further.

I am not in the AVB camp yet, but neither am I out of it. There is no middle ground at the end of this month. I will either support AVB till the end of the season or I will be firmly with you and Mr B. I have always wanted to be fair and reasonable in my judgements. At this moment the Jury is definitely still out!

[dimexi]

Actually I did say – somewhere else on here – that if Spurs were fighting relegation then we would have to look at the situation again (concerning AVB’s position). I also believe it is sensible to buy someone only if there is the right player available. Which I am sure Levy will do.

So if we were between 10th and 15th, you would be okay with that?

But I have committed myself, you, unfortunately, don’t wish to see it because it is not to your liking. There is a lot going on behind the scenes which we don’t know about and if the club or manager thought it was necessary to buy then they would (which might happen). Remember; Spurs are famous of suggesting that they might not buy and then go out and spend big.

Don't put words in my mouth! I was only responding to what you said about waiting to the end of the season. Which is entirely up to you, and is actually a fairer response than calling for him to be sacked on his first day. In fact teams get rid of their managers too quickly at times. Giving him till the end of the season is a very commendable approach.

I just wondered if that commitment would stand no matter where we were in the league.

[dimexi]

As stated before, I am a logical thinker, and rarely let my emotions or gut feelings interfere with a decision. In general I agree with what you have said. To the positive, we are in a better position than I would have expected considering our injuries and the loss of Modric and VDV. The replacements to these two players are clearly less talented. To the negative, we have 4 points less than this time last year and are few positions lower. The football is boring to watch, and the atmosphere helps confirm this.

In short, I am far from convinced that AVB is the right person, and if given the chance I would replace him tomorrow with Arry, but that isn't going to happen. I think all we can do is keep our fingers crossed and hope AVB is learning from his mistakes. Further more, I would like to think the club will at long last actually use the transfer window to strengthen the squad, rather than to make money, but I'm not holding my breath.

Probably one of you fairer and more reasonable posts Mr B. I agree that we are down in points from last year. (see other posts for how our win % dropped by the end though). However, after 18 games we were on 39 points so are in fact 9 points down! We need to be looking at achieving another 39 points by the end of the season, just to match last years tally. I know each year is different but we have some way to go.

That is just looking at the numbers without having to go into the way we are actually playing right now.

[dimexi]

I have never said that, however, if I had and looking at their position at the moment I would be quite happy.

I know that it will take time for a new manager to settle in. But we are not even close to where we were last year. How can you be so happy? I am not saying that it is bad right now, we are just about doing okay and have a chance to get 4th. But do you not have any doubts at all about either the manager, the transfer policy, style of play, tactics or is each and every one of these going well for you?

[Glenn R]

So if we were between 10th and 15th, you would be okay with that?

I would be very surprised if that happened. I think our squad is too strong to finish anywhere near what you suggested.

Don't put words in my mouth! I was only responding to what you said about waiting to the end of the season. Which is entirely up to you, and is actually a fairer response than calling for him to be sacked on his first day. In fact teams get rid of their managers too quickly at times. Giving him till the end of the season is a very commendable approach.

Waiting to the end of the season, unless we were fighting relegation then we would have to look at it closer. Apart from that we should judge at the end of the season, as I said.

I just wondered if that commitment would stand no matter where we were in the league.

As I said above.

[Glenn R]

I have never said that, however, if I had and looking at their position at the moment I would be quite happy.

I know that it will take time for a new manager to settle in. But we are not even close to where we were last year. How can you be so happy? I am not saying that it is bad right now, we are just about doing okay and have a chance to get 4th. But do you not have any doubts at all about either the manager, the transfer policy, style of play, tactics or is each and every one of these going well for you?

At first I just watched and observed. But as time goes on I am having more faith in him. I do think he will do well if given the chance.

I go to every home game and even the defeats I have seen something positive. Granted the team has improved every visit I have made and with the injured players coming back I am in an optimistic mood. The only time I would panic is if we were fighting relegation.

I don't believe we would finish as low as 15, however, if we did I would look at the circumstances why we had fallen so far and then form my opinion. I also remember Alex Ferguson when he was one game away from getting the sack (against West Ham United). The "faithful" were singing for him to be sacked.

[dimexi]

So if we were between 10th and 15th, you would be okay with that?

I would be very surprised if that happened. I think our squad is too strong to finish anywhere near what you suggested.

I said IF and this was only an attempt to get something solid from you. I agree that we will not end up in 10th but was looking for some clarity.

So hypothetically, at what point regardless of if you do not think we would be there, at what point would you be  critical of AVB?

Would you think that AVB was doing well, if we ended the season 9th? 8th? 7th? 6th? 5th? Put you neck on the line. Even if it is for the final league position, as you are keen to wait till then.

Name your positions for success, more time given and rejection of AVB.

Mine would be:

4th and above success. Full support given for next year.
5th - more time
(6th - more time if points tally the same as 5th or an unusual event poor ref decision in final minute of last game etc.)
6th and lower a very bad year, proving that Harry should not have been sacked or that AVB was the wrong choice to replace him. Both AVB and Levy should stand down.