A conflict of interest.

[Glenn R]

As I am writing this I find myself in a rather difficult position. I have just witnessed another Spurs victory, taking us back into the top 4 on the same points as Chelsea and AVB is on the way to receiving my full support. Winning against Stoke will mean he has achieved 15 points from the games up until Christmas. If we lose or draw I will hold off judgement for a while longer.

It would seem all is well and you just cannot argue with the facts and figures. Even Baldbloke will have to eat his hat if we maintain our current win %!

So why the conflict of interest?

Well, my interest is that Spurs achieve and move forwards to greater things. However, the game against Swansea was rather uncomfortable and to be fair to MR B, the football is not pleasant to watch. Our passing is slow and uninventive. Our movement off the ball is ridiculously non-existent at times, too many players just walking from  one place on the field to another. When someone does run with the ball, aka Lennon. He rarely had anyone to give him an out when a cross was not possible. Naughton looks like a duck out of water. He cannot cross, pass or move to anywhere useful, we desperately need BAE back, or play Vertonghen there.

I appreciate that Swansea parked the bus, but we did make it hard for ourselves. Without Bale, we lack penetration, guile, class and power. If we are going to keep playing this way and winning, I will keep giving my support. But it will not be as enjoyable as I would like.

We used to play great football at times but it won us nothing. Maybe we need to get gritty to win a bit more and then the good play will hopefully follow.

I've been saying the same thing for ages. Good football is good with results, but nothing without them. Gritty or poor with results is better. It is about winning, high positions and trophies.

The point is though, we can do both. After all we did with Arry.

Did we? We achieve 4th twice and at the expense of Chelsea and City. Harry couldn't take us further that is why he was dismissed.

I am sure we can argue the point further, and in person, when I buy you that drink

[ugs]

As I am writing this I find myself in a rather difficult position. I have just witnessed another Spurs victory, taking us back into the top 4 on the same points as Chelsea and AVB is on the way to receiving my full support. Winning against Stoke will mean he has achieved 15 points from the games up until Christmas. If we lose or draw I will hold off judgement for a while longer.

It would seem all is well and you just cannot argue with the facts and figures. Even Baldbloke will have to eat his hat if we maintain our current win %!

So why the conflict of interest?

Well, my interest is that Spurs achieve and move forwards to greater things. However, the game against Swansea was rather uncomfortable and to be fair to MR B, the football is not pleasant to watch. Our passing is slow and uninventive. Our movement off the ball is ridiculously non-existent at times, too many players just walking from  one place on the field to another. When someone does run with the ball, aka Lennon. He rarely had anyone to give him an out when a cross was not possible. Naughton looks like a duck out of water. He cannot cross, pass or move to anywhere useful, we desperately need BAE back, or play Vertonghen there.

I appreciate that Swansea parked the bus, but we did make it hard for ourselves. Without Bale, we lack penetration, guile, class and power. If we are going to keep playing this way and winning, I will keep giving my support. But it will not be as enjoyable as I would like.

We used to play great football at times but it won us nothing. Maybe we need to get gritty to win a bit more and then the good play will hopefully follow.

I've been saying the same thing for ages. Good football is good with results, but nothing without them. Gritty or poor with results is better. It is about winning, high positions and trophies.

The point is though, we can do both. After all we did with Arry.

Did we? We achieve 4th twice and at the expense of Chelsea and City. Harry couldn't take us further that is why he was dismissed.

I am sure we can argue the point further, and in person, when I buy you that drink

This statement annoys me and also HOW can you quantify it !!!!!
 
We will never know but I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now, also if wasn't for 'Arry raising our expectations and getting us to the top 4 we wouldn't be having this conversation now !!!!!!!!!
 
 

[Glenn R]

This statement annoys me and also HOW can you quantify it !!!!!

Actually we can. We can look at his past record and nothing in his previous managerial role has shown he could take us further. Granted he is good at helping clubs out of relegation (but not all clubs) and that is why he was brought into White Hart Lane. He has achieved that goal and is now gone. The next phase is for another manager to take us further. Levy recognised that and so did quite a few others; including pundits.
 

We will never know but I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now, also if wasn't for 'Arry raising our expectations and getting us to the top 4 we wouldn't be having this conversation now !!!!!!!!!
 
 

And you can’t say that. What you are saying here is just speculation, I on the other hand am using the evidence to back me up. AVB has only just started at the club and all managers need time to settle in. In Harry’s first season at Spurs we finished 8th. You say that “I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now”. Let us see at the end of the season, at the moment we are in a healthy position with key players coming back from injury.

[baldbloke]

We will never know but I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now, also if wasn't for 'Arry raising our expectations and getting us to the top 4 we wouldn't be having this conversation now !!!!!!!!!
 
 

And you can’t say that. What you are saying here is just speculation, I on the other hand am using the evidence to back me up. AVB has only just started at the club and all managers need time to settle in. In Harry’s first season at Spurs we finished 8th. You say that “I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now”. Let us see at the end of the season, at the moment we are in a healthy position with key players coming back from injury.
[/quote]

If it's hard evidence you want. At this point last year we were 3rd and had 4 more points.

[dimexi]

This statement annoys me and also HOW can you quantify it !!!!!

Actually we can. We can look at his past record and nothing in his previous managerial role has shown he could take us further. Granted he is good at helping clubs out of relegation (but not all clubs) and that is why he was brought into White Hart Lane. He has achieved that goal and is now gone. The next phase is for another manager to take us further. Levy recognised that and so did quite a few others; including pundits.
 

We will never know but I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now, also if wasn't for 'Arry raising our expectations and getting us to the top 4 we wouldn't be having this conversation now !!!!!!!!!
 
 

And you can’t say that. What you are saying here is just speculation, I on the other hand am using the evidence to back me up. AVB has only just started at the club and all managers need time to settle in. In Harry’s first season at Spurs we finished 8th. You say that “I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now”. Let us see at the end of the season, at the moment we are in a healthy position with key players coming back from injury.

We went through all this on the 'Harry Redknapp' thread. I do not think you were able to back up what you said then, yet you still insist on making the statement that got Ugs so wound up. (Harry couldn't take us further that is why he was dismissed.) Which also stood out like a sore thumb when I read it. But decided not to bite as it was already discussed. However, you are still saying the same old stuff. When you can back up some of your claims with something along the lines of actual evidence, even some circumstantial evidence would be a start, then come back and try again. So far your attempts are a little weak.

[Glenn R]

If it's hard evidence you want. At this point last year we were 3rd and had 4 more points.

Basically peoples stance on Harry is based on their opinions on the current manager. They are hostile, like yourself, so he (Harry) is a God.

[Glenn R]

This statement annoys me and also HOW can you quantify it !!!!!

Actually we can. We can look at his past record and nothing in his previous managerial role has shown he could take us further. Granted he is good at helping clubs out of relegation (but not all clubs) and that is why he was brought into White Hart Lane. He has achieved that goal and is now gone. The next phase is for another manager to take us further. Levy recognised that and so did quite a few others; including pundits.
 

We will never know but I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now, also if wasn't for 'Arry raising our expectations and getting us to the top 4 we wouldn't be having this conversation now !!!!!!!!!
 
 

And you can’t say that. What you are saying here is just speculation, I on the other hand am using the evidence to back me up. AVB has only just started at the club and all managers need time to settle in. In Harry’s first season at Spurs we finished 8th. You say that “I am pretty sure we would be no worse off than we are now”. Let us see at the end of the season, at the moment we are in a healthy position with key players coming back from injury.

We went through all this on the 'Harry Redknapp' thread. I do not think you were able to back up what you said then, yet you still insist on making the statement that got Ugs so wound up. (Harry couldn't take us further that is why he was dismissed.) Which also stood out like a sore thumb when I read it. But decided not to bite as it was already discussed. However, you are still saying the same old stuff. When you can back up some of your claims with something along the lines of actual evidence, even some circumstantial evidence would be a start, then come back and try again. So far your attempts are a little weak.

But that works both ways; do you have evidence that I am wrong? I am making an educated guess. Based on his past record and other evidence. By the way; if he was as good as you make him out to be I am surprised that England didn't snap him up or that one of the top clubs didn't rush in and make him and offer? Maybe they all knew something that you didn't. I stick by what I said. Harry has his qualities but he also has his failings and that is why I am glad that AVB is our manager and not Harry. Of course I thank him for what he has done for us but now we move on.

[dimexi]

But that works both ways; do you have evidence that I am wrong? I am making an educated guess. Based on his past record and other evidence. By the way; if he was as good as you make him out to be I am surprised that England didn't snap him up or that one of the top clubs didn't rush in and make him and offer? Maybe they all knew something that you didn't. I stick by what I said. Harry has his qualities but he also has his failings and that is why I am glad that AVB is our manager and not Harry. Of course I thank him for what he has done for us but now we move on.

Voice, No I do not have evidence that you are wrong exactly. But enough evidence to question if you are completely right. Looking at Harry's achievements outside of Tottenham is about as useful as looking at AVB's at Chelsea. They are not relevant.

We can all agree on the actual results of Harry's reign at Spurs because it is there in black and white, it is relevant because it relates to spurs and there is nothing that suggests that he failed. The question of whether someone else could have done, or will do better than him is hypothetical. It cannot be fully judged until someone else either does better, does the same or does worse than him. If AVB does not achieve at least 5th then is has done worse FACT! the year we finished 8th, he came in after the season started and turned us around very quickly. But I think we can only compare them based on a whole season.

I do not make him out to be anything other than what he actually was. Based on how Spurs played, where we finished in the league and whether I had the confidence that we could do it again in the future. Yes, I liked Harry and think we got it wrong when we sacked him. I also think that he was a better choice of manager for England. But I also did not use that against AVB and have continuosly tried to support AVB and give him a fair chance. Whereas, some condemned him from the start, whilst others sing his praises even in the face of the quality of football having depleted.

[Glenn R]

Voice, No I do not have evidence that you are wrong exactly. But enough evidence to question if you are completely right. Looking at Harry's achievements outside of Tottenham is about as useful as looking at AVB's at Chelsea. They are not relevant.

I never said I was completely right but making an educated guess based on the evidence. If you are comparing Harry’s managerial career over AVB’s time at Chelsea I would agree. But AVB’s problem at Chelsea was the same problem all mangers have faced at Chelsea while Roman Abramovich has been in charge. Whatever they win they will fail. But comparing his management career and Harry’s career then you can make a pretty good judgement. That is why he was wanted at Chelsea and not Harry. That is why he got the job and Harry was sacked. That is why Harry wasn’t wanted by any top club – other than Spurs to help them with relegation – or even the England job. Think about it.

We can all agree on the actual results of Harry's reign at Spurs because it is there in black and white, it is relevant because it relates to spurs and there is nothing that suggests that he failed. The question of whether someone else could have done, or will do better than him is hypothetical. It cannot be fully judged until someone else either does better, does the same or does worse than him. If AVB does not achieve at least 5th then is has done worse FACT! the year we finished 8th, he came in after the season started and turned us around very quickly. But I think we can only compare them based on a whole season.

In Harry’s first season we finished 8th, if AVB finishes 5th then it will be BETTER THAN HARRY’S ACHIEVEMENT. To compare both then you must give AVB a couple of seasons.

I do agree with you about Harry’s achievements while here and I did say that he must be thanked in what has achieved. I then went on and said he couldn’t take us further, or I BELIEVED he couldn’t take us further. If he could then I am sure other big clubs would have come in for him, including England. None did, that tells you a lot about Harry.

I do not make him out to be anything other than what he actually was. Based on how Spurs played, where we finished in the league and whether I had the confidence that we could do it again in the future. Yes, I liked Harry and think we got it wrong when we sacked him. I also think that he was a better choice of manager for England. But I also did not use that against AVB and have continuosly tried to support AVB and give him a fair chance. Whereas, some condemned him from the start, whilst others sing his praises even in the face of the quality of football having depleted.

I disagree with what you say about Harry, Yes he did a good job, but I repeat it was time to take a different direction and I don’t believe he was the man for the job. I was glad he was sacked and I am pleased I am not alone in that thought. Now we must back AVB until the time comes or if the time comes to shout for his removal.

[Paul Finch]

I am sick to DEATH of this continual diatribe by the HARRY HATERS, who I wouldn't mind betting were singing his praises some 12 mths ago. When will you get it through your thick skulls that he wasn't sacked because of his coaching inadequasies, it was personal between him and Levy, something that had been simmering behind the scenes for some time. As for him only being brought to the club to save us from relegation, I have never heard such a load of crap, he was bought to the club to bring success, the same as any new coach is taken to any club, and before anyone says he didn't bring success, no we didn't win anything but we came pretty close, CL at the end of year 2, 5th after yr 3  1/4 finals CL,4th after yr 4, and we would have been playing CL this year, had Chelski not won CL last, with Modric in the side and I wouldn't mind betting our points haul in the league would have been better than what it is.
   Quite honestly I am sick and tired of reading the arguments and counter arguments week in and week out it is now becoming BLOODY BORING. Just get over it!!!!!


 

[Glenn R]

I am sick to DEATH of this continual diatribe by the HARRY HATERS, who I wouldn't mind betting were singing his praises some 12 mths ago. When will you get it through your thick skulls that he wasn't sacked because of his coaching inadequasies, it was personal between him and Levy, something that had been simmering behind the scenes for some time. As for him only being brought to the club to save us from relegation, I have never heard such a load of crap, he was bought to the club to bring success, the same as any new coach is taken to any club, and before anyone says he didn't bring success, no we didn't win anything but we came pretty close, CL at the end of year 2, 5th after yr 3  1/4 finals CL,4th after yr 4, and we would have been playing CL this year, had Chelski not won CL last, with Modric in the side and I wouldn't mind betting our points haul in the league would have been better than what it is.
   Quite honestly I am sick and tired of reading the arguments and counter arguments week in and week out it is now becoming BLOODY BORING. Just get over it!!!!!


 

Well you don't have to read them. These are free forum and not just for you. There has been a lot of good debates on this subject.

As for it being rubbish about Harry only been brought in to help them out of relegation. Well, I was told this by one of Spurs coaching staff and other sources. Including people who work at the club.

Nobody said he wasn't sacked for coaching inadequacies but not be able to take us further.

Yes, he might have won us a cup or two (like he did at Pompey) but Spurs aspirations should be a lot higher than a cup and Harry didn't have it to take us further.

[dimexi]

In general I agree with Finch. This argument is boring, which is what I was getting at originally. Somehow, I have been dragged back into the realms of inconsistent and unsubstantiated arguments. I think I will leave it there.

I would rather we got back to the thread topic of analyzing the quality of play. Which against Stoke was not exactly inspiring once again!

[ugs]

Voice on the England job and 'Arry it was simple mathmatics Levy wanted £10 million plus compensation WBA wanted about £3 million and to a cash strapped FA it was a no brainer, plus all the top clubs have managers that is why none of them came in for him. If I remember rightly when AVB was sacked at Chelski 'Arry's name was mentioned then but Chelski were told to back off by Levy so there you have it you can only get a top job if one is available !!!!
 
 

[Paul Finch]

Voice, you are quite right this is an open forum, not just for me or you, and I am sure there are a lot of people who like me read all of the topics that have had additions to them, the topic of Harry has been covered in so many, it is now becoming boring, we can all make arguments for and against both him and AVB, and personally I think that it is time for the topic of Harry to be put too bed for once and for all.


  Merry Xmas to all who read this.

 

[Glenn R]

In general I agree with Finch. This argument is boring, which is what I was getting at originally. Somehow, I have been dragged back into the realms of inconsistent and unsubstantiated arguments. I think I will leave it there.

If the thread is boring to you then don't get involved. I am new here so I find it interesting and am enjoying the debate. Of course there may come a time when I also will find the Harry thread boring, when that comes I'll leave it instead of making derogatory comments that isn't really helpful or relevant.

I would rather we got back to the thread topic of analyzing the quality of play. Which against Stoke was not exactly inspiring once again!

I agree it wasn't a brilliant game but there was some positive points and don't forget that Stoke has one of the best defences in the league.

As for getting back to the thread topic; nobody is stopping you. It was you that decided to side track and then moan about it. Not me or some others.