Tottenham v Ars*nal

[bengibbons17]

Hi Guys,

I am currently a University student at Durham and I am currently researching the rivalry that exists between Tottenham and Ars*nal. Any information anyone can provide me would be extremly useful e.g. why there is such hatred, personal perspectives on the derby game, and data related to the game or any personal stories from matches

Your help is much appreciated

Cheers
Ben

[SomersetYiddo]

Ars*nal were formed in Woolwich, South London and then they moved up to North London years later, we were already an established football club by the time they had moved up next to us, and we are the original team from North London. Im not sure on dates but if you look around on the internet you will find some information.

[bengibbons17]

Ars*nal were formed in Woolwich, South London and then they moved up to North London years later, we were already an established football club by the time they had moved up next to us, and we are the original team from North London. Im not sure on dates but if you look around on the internet you will find some information.

Cheers for the response, any other information you could provide? Like could you describe your experinces of an Ars*nal match if you have been to one?

Thanks

[SomersetYiddo]

There is so much to talk about about the rivalry really mate. Ive been brought up to hate them ever since my dad and my uncle first took me to my first game many years ago (im only 22 aswell but it seems like years ago). Tottenham fans say that the Ars*nal way of playing the game with lots of passing and ability to break teams down is how Spurs use to play the game under Bill Nicholson when we won the title and FA Cup and did the famous double in 60/61. They have copied this style and now brand it there own.

[SomersetYiddo]

With the off the field antics in football hooliganism, obvious with lots of teams in London there is much rivalry. On the pitch Spurs biggest rivals are Ars*nal without a doubt but off the pitch Ars*nal do not have an active firm and even back in the day they were not known at all really for being a known firm and were always seen to run away from the battles unlike Spurs Yid Army. Spurs rivalry off the field lies with Chelsea and West Ham because they have established firms unlike Ars*nal. I have a read alot of books on the football casual culture and they all say the same that Tottenham have one of the most active and powerful hooligan firms around still.

[SomersetYiddo]

Ars*nal have won more league titles than Spurs have 2 league titles to Ars*nals 13. Spurs have 8 FA Cups to Ars*nal 10. But we have 4 League Cups to there 2 and we have a better record in Europe to them because we have 2 UEFA Cups compared to 0 for them, no Champions League or UEFA Cups.

[SomersetYiddo]

As for the matches, every club thinks there derby against there rivals is the best derby in the game but many neutral football fans would say that the North London derby is one of the best derbies in English or maybe even European football. Spurs generally have a poor record in games against Ars*nal but until the recent last few years we have started to get some goos results against them including a famous victory against them at White Hart Lane in April which we won 2-1. The first time we had beaten them in many years (look up the facts to get the right dates mate). Spurs have always known to be more vocal in there support and hatred for Ars*nal and the games are really something special to the fans. If you lose it is the worst feeling ever! The atmosphere is second to none, a good derby consists of crunching tackles, players getting sent off, late equalisers / winners and of course a Spurs win!

[taimedowne]

There was also this which didn't help relations.
During WW1 league football was suspended, for obvious enough reasons. We had either won or come runner up in the old Div 2 and should have been promoted. Ars*nal had finished bottom of Div 1 and should have been relegated, But their board pushed to have the league re-start with the old teams, and so we were denied a hard earned promotion and stayed in Div 2 for a good few more seasons. TBH I read this story some time ago in a book which concentrated on the derby (which if you could find would answer all your questions) and my memory of the details is a bit sketchy (it all happened before my time before somebody states otherwise) but I'm sure if you put some effort in you can fill in the facts.

[WilsonJet]

Cool thread. I find this fascinating as an American fan. I can't comment on the matchday atmosphere, but I can tell you about the perception of the clubs stateside. The average American sports fan has heard of Ars*nal but not Tottenham. For those that are familiar with English football the following associations are made with each club:

Ars*nal: Trendy, flashy, fashionable, EUROPEAN. Arrogant contemptuous wimpy fanbase with superficial knowledge. Used to be a boring defensive team, but have adopted a "continental" style of play utilizing a surplus of quick, short, accurate passes. They seem to think they invented the concept and all the fans comments and chants center around the idea, "We're the greatest - and Spurs are s**t". Despite their European style of play and domestic success - they have yet to win a trophy in Europe.

Tottenham: Authentic English club. Play an aggressive English game with homegrown talent. Consistently "second-best". Loyal, long-suffering, vocal and supportive fanbase with a bit of an inferiority complex and a hopeful but pessimistic outlook. Waiting for a return to the glory days. Ties to the Jewish community and managed, financially, in the stereotypical Jewish fashion - tight, profitable, little debt, strategic spending. Powerful firm associated with the club. Win an occassional domestic trophy but can't get over the hump. 

Arsene Wenger & Harry Redknapp perfectly represent the two clubs in my mind.

[jaymeariel]

I think the most notible incident of the hatred between Ars*nal vs Tottenham in recent history is Sol Campbell leaving for Ars*nal, at the time he was England first choice centre back he was our captain and our best player by far.
He ran down his contract so we didnt get a penny from Transfers but more notibly he was our hero its not like it is now where we have 6 or 7 key players, back then we had one, he was brought through our system and everyone loved him.
Having to deal with gloating Ars*nal fans was hard. We have given him abuse ever since wherever he has played which has had police involved and some of the name calling has been hilarious.

Its not like Fabregas who they poached from Barcelona is a spanish boy and will sell him back for 30 million, it was the first incident I had of where loyalties had really gone in football.

Now redemption should be in order on Saturday when William Gallas (ex gunners captain + hate figure amongst Ars*nal fans) comes up and smashes a header in to the top corner for a 0-1 Tottenham win, I for one will go mad.