Football Discussion => World Football => Topic started by: DC76 on September 03, 2013, 11:51:57 PM

Title: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on September 03, 2013, 11:51:57 PM
Well, I said I'd do this, so...

Brazil's top flight is one of the world's most competitive and it might be the most skilled outside of Europe. While I don't think it's on par with the Prems or La Liga, it could outdo most European leagues, I think.

The team I support there (not on par with Spurs of course) is Atlético Mineiro, the 2013 Copa Libertadores champs and my friend Jessie's favourite team (since he's from Belo Horizonte, where they play). The equivalent of Ars*nal to him is Cruzeiro.

Which brings us to this update. Cruzeiro (34) are currently top by three points over Grêmio (31) from Porto Alegre, and four over Curitiba-based Atlético Paranaense and Rio-based Botafogo (both 30). Corinthians Paulista (29) rounds out the top five.

The bulk of the table is in a five-point stretch running from sixth-place Coritiba (25) to a three-way points logjam including Atlético Mineiro, Vasco da Gama (from Rio) and Criciúma (all 20). The only teams behind them that are outside of the red are a couple of Rio clubs, Flamengo (19, a major bandwagon club) and Fluminense (18). The "Flu" are only two ahead of Portuguesa (16) and three ahead of Ponte Preta (15; pronounced pon-chee PRE-tah) and FC São Paulo (also 15; this is really low for them because they're normally quite good). The only team that really seems to be lagging is Naútico (8; pronounced NOW-chee-ku). Recife's only representative is lagging something fierce right now.

Just so you know, I will provide a list of clubs and locations:

Atlético Mineiro - Belo Horizonte
Atlético Paranaense - Curitiba
Bahia - Salvador
Botafogo - Rio de Janeiro
Corinthians- São Paulo
Coritiba - Curitiba
Criciúma - Criciúma
Cruzeiro - Belo Horizonte   
Flamengo - Rio de Janeiro
Fluminense - Rio de Janeiro
Goiás - Goiânia   
Grêmio - Porto Alegre
Internacional - Porto Alegre
Náutico - Recife
Ponte Preta - Campinas
Portuguesa - São Paulo
Santos - Santos
São Paulo    - São Paulo
Vasco da Gama - Rio de Janeiro
Vitória - Salvador

Any questions?
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: spursjoolz on September 04, 2013, 10:03:47 PM
I don't  know a great deal about Brazilian football, but willing to find out more.
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on September 05, 2013, 01:11:01 AM
By the looks of things, Fridays will be the best days for updates, since games take place most days of the week.
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: Chelmsford_yid on September 05, 2013, 01:47:53 AM
I don't  know a great deal about Brazilian football, but willing to find out more.

If you have BT Sports & ESPN you can have a lot a of live games they show.
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on September 05, 2013, 06:58:20 AM
There are also free live feeds if you know where to look.
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on September 21, 2013, 01:09:41 AM
Update time!

Cruzeiro (49) is building a nice lead, much to my friend Jessie's chagrin. :P The closest team to them is Botafogo (42), with Grêmio and Atlético Paranaense (both 38) looking set to duke it out for the last Copa Libertadores spot. Since we're just past the halfway mark of the 38-match season, I wouldn't rule out Internacional (34) making a run in the near future either.

As before, the vast majority of the table is in a logjam. In a smaller distance than that which separates Cruzeiro from Botafogo, you have every team from sixth-place Vitória (30) all the way down into the halfway point of the red zone, where historical powers Vasco da Gama (24) sit. Unlike many European leagues, the Brazilian league system's first tiebreaker is wins count rather than goal differential. So here's an abridged table to give you an idea of how close it is:

(*game in hand)

6. Vitória - 30, 8 wins
7. Corinthians - 30, 7 wins, +7
8. Coritiba - 30, 7 wins, E
9. Goiás - 30, 7 wins, -3
10. Fluminense - 29, 8 wins
11. *Santos - 29, 7 wins
12. *Atlético Mineiro - 28, 7 wins, -1
13. Bahia - 28, 7 wins, -4
14. São Paulo - 27
15. Flamengo - 26
16. Portuguesa - 25
17. Criciúma - 24, 7 wins
18. Vasco da Gama - 24, 6 wins
*19. Ponte Preta - 19

Last-place Nautico... still only nine points, just one more than when I did my opening spiel. Really, they're looking like no-hopers. And if Ponte Preta wins their game in hand, they'll probably look even more so. Seriously, the distance between Ponte Preta and Nautico would almost equal the distance between Vasco da Gama and a Copa Libertadores spot (remember, Grêmio, the last spot-holder, has 38 points). So really, when you stop and think about it, the only teams that seem to be light-years away from the main block of the league are Nautico at the bottom and Cruzeiro and Botafogo up top.

Now for a little history lesson.

Of the seventeen teams that are officially recognised as Brazilian Champions, fourteen of them are playing in the Serie A this season. Now the co-holder of the record for most championships, Palmeiras, was relegated in 2012, but sit top in Serie B and are looking like pretty good bets to go up again for next season, being fifteen points ahead of the first team outside the promotion area (which, ironically enough, is another team that has won the title in the past, Sport Club Recife, who won in 1987). That said, Palmeiras' last win was in 1994, giving Santos time to even their record, winning their seventh and eighth titles in 2002 and 2004 respectively.

Santos might be Brazil's best known club outside of Brazil, because it certainly was at one point, thanks to the legendary Pelé playing much of his career there. They are the only Brazilian champions to win more than three titles in a row - they won five, starting with 1961 and ending with 1965. After a sixth title in 1968, they didn't win again for another 34 years.

Third-place all-time on the list is FC São Paulo. Going by numbers of titles, they are the most successful team of the 21st century, having won three titles in a row ('06, '07, and '08), doubling their total from three to six. If Corinthians were to win this season, they'd be the third club to double their titles since the turn of the millennium and the second to win three. They're sitting on five right now, their most recent win coming in 2011.

The defending champs, Fluminense, were the second team to double their titles since the turn of the millennium. They had to wait 26 years for their third title (in 2010) but only two more for their fourth. There's a second team with four titles under its belt, Vasco da Gama, but their last title was in 2000. Not as far removed as some teams from their last league title, but still...

Internacional has three titles to its credit, but all three were gleaned in the late 70s - 1975, 1976, and 1979 - so they are 34 years removed from their last title. They are still within a shot with 16 matches left, but they have some serious catching up to do if they're going to win this season. :P

Cruzeiro, Grêmio, Botafogo, and Bahia are all sitting on two titles. Cruzeiro won their second most recent of the four, winning in 2003; Grêmio last won in 1996, Botafogo in 1995, and Bahia in 1988. Of these four, it seems only Bahia is out of the running for their third this season.

Finally, there are five teams with a single Brazilian Championship to their credit, of which three are in the Serie A this season. Guarani, having won in 1978, have more recently been lucky just to get up into the Serie A let along even contend. The last time they made a decent go of it was in 1994, when they placed third. Nowadays, they're languishing in Serie C after being relegated from Serie B last season. Recife has done somewhat better, becoming a yo-yo team, although they currently sit fifth in Serie B.

2001 champs Atletico Paranaense seem the best bet of the remaining three one-title teams to actually win the title this season. Coritiba last won in 1985, and Atlético Mineiro are the furthest removed of any team from its last championship - 42 years - since they last won in 1971. (To their credit, though, they did win this year's Copa Libertadores and finished second in last year's league. Certainly steps in the right direction! ;) )

This leaves six Serie A teams that have never won the championship, of which three - Criciúma, Ponte Preta, and Nautico - are presently in the red. The top team in the table that has never won is sixth-place Vitória, whose best finish was second in 1993, and the other two are Goiás, whose best finish was 3rd in 2005, and Portuguesa, who finished second in 1996.

Ponte Preta's best finish was 3rd in 1981, Criciúma's best was 6th in 1987, and Nautico's was 2nd in 1967 (different format back then). Since the official beginning of the Serie A, they have only been as high as 6th (1984).
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on October 23, 2013, 03:53:38 AM
Time for another update - and these will be getting more frequent since there are only eight games left in the season. ;)

Cruzeiro (62) looks like they really want this title, which would be their third. However, they did trip up a little against cross-town rivals Atletico Mineiro (45) who currently sit sixth - as defending Copa Libertadores champs, they don't have to worry about not qualifying, but still, it would be nice for Galo fans (such as myself and my best friend Jesse) to see them finish well. But I digress. There's a race for second that is fairly tight right now, led by Grêmio (53) and closely followed up by Atletico Paranaense (51) and Botafogo (50).

The main block of the table might not be as close as it was earlier in the season, but still, just ten points separate the first team outside of qualification for international club competition, Goias (46) and the last team outside the red zone, Bahia (36). Yes, that's right. The points distance between first and second is just about the same as the distance between fifth and sixteenth. And it might tighten up further still, as of the four red-zoners, only Nautico (17) is really lagging. The long and the short of this is, if they drop two losses worth of points in the last eight games, they're screwed. The odds are pretty much against them staying up! Not the case with Vasco da Gama (33), Criciuma (32), or Ponte Preta (30), though. They are all still fairly close to the main block, and the only team that is "officially safe" even now is Cruzeiro.
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on December 07, 2013, 07:11:05 PM
So much for getting more frequent. This is one reason why work sucks... :P

Anyway, with one match to go, Cruzeiro (75) has clinched its third title and second since the turn of the millennium (only São Paulo has more in this regard). Second-place Grêmio (64) is all but guaranteed a Copa Libertadores second round spot, joining Cruzeiro, defending Copa champs Atletico Mineiro (56), and Copa do Brasil champeens São Paulo (50). The first-round qualifying spots are held by Atlético Paranaense (61) and Goiás (59), but Botafogo and Vitória (both 58) still have a chance of catching them. (Not that it matters now, but so does Atlético Mineiro.  :up:

At the other end, Naútico (17) was boned long ago, and Ponte Preta (37) will be joining them in Serie B next season. (The ironic thing here is, Ponte Preta could still see continental football next season as they face Lanús in the finals of the Copa Sudamericana.) But the other two drop spots are still close. Four teams - Portuguesa (47), Internacional (also 47), Criciúma (46), and Corítiba (45) are in danger of being caught by Vasco da Gama (44), and the latter two of those can also be caught by Fluminense (43). With said two facing teams much higher in the table in their last match, anything could happen down there at this point.
Title: Re: BRASIL! LA LALA LALA LA LALA! :-p (Brazilian Serie A)
Post by: DC76 on December 09, 2013, 11:15:00 PM

Atlético Paranaense (64) and Botafogo (61) got the first-round spots for next year's Copa Libertadores, leaving Goiás and Vitória (both 59) hoping that they do well enough in the Copa do Brasil to get into the 2014 Copa Sudamericana.

It was a photo finish at the other end, with Fluminense (46) getting relegated due to winning fewer matches than Criciúma (also 46) as that, rather than goal diff, is their first tiebreaker. Joining them are traditional giants Vasco da Gama (44). Kinda sad, actually, but they can always come back up next season. Something I learned about already-relegated Ponte Preta (37) is that if they beat Lanús in the finals of the Copa Sudamericana (this goes on Wednesday) then they will be in Libertadores next season. Them being in the second flight and still playing international football is akin to Tromsø being in Europa and the Adeccoligaen. :P

That's it for Brazil for now.