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Tottenham Discussion => Spurs Chat => Topic started by: Gareth Keown on July 30, 2010, 01:47:32 PM
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I think yesterday showed everyone watching how vulnerable these 2 can be to pace.
1st half they started as the CB pairing, and everytime we tried to play a highline in order to allow our midfielders to support the strikers, these 2 looked very uneasy - as the 1st 2 Villareal goals amply displayed.
Dawson tho improved last season, is still nevertheless just always a moment away from being skinned when the ball is played behind the Back4.... having the equally inept Corluka (who was disastrous against Sporting Lisbon when played at CB again) adds up to footballing suicide.
there are those who say Corluka is our best RB as he compliments Lennon so well... I actually think its waaaay the other way around, inthat Lennon's dynamism and ability to track back makes Corluka look twice the player he truly is - Arry I think knows this now and will start Kaboul at RB when fit.
we need a new right CB pronto.... soooner Richards, or more feasibly Curtis Davies arrives, the better.
forget the star-striker pipedream Arry and concentrate on getting that vital new RCB before the season starts.
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I don't rate Corluka at CB.. and dawson has shown before in my eyes that hee needs a decent CB along side him for him to play well.
i agree a new CB is needed
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Dawson did do well last season in the games he played.... so I'm not dissing him.
but... to play well he does need a partner with pace - King or Bassong - to shore him up, in the same way the over-rated Terry has been helped over the yrs by Gallas, Carvalho and Alex..
I'm actually glad that the result highlighted our biggest weakness last night, and now I'm even surer that Arry will see the issue as a BIG prority to resolve by 14th August.
or maybe Arry knew this would happen all along, and wanted to demonstrate this to the many Spurs fans that would not have seen the problem otherwise, and generally love the hype of both Corluka and Dawson.
hope Kaboul is fit for RB duties by 14/8.
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To be fair Corluka is not a centre back and plays well at right back, I seem to remember a game against Man City I think when he came on in the first half because the right back was being skinned (Sikora, I think). After coming on completely controlled the right half of the pitch with Lennon no probs.
Dawson hasn't played since May and as far as I can remember he was along with Bale was our best player last season. Don't be too quick to judge on just one game, Dawson is a quality Centre Back maybe not blessed with ligthning pace but he will lay his body on the line for the team whenever he is asked to do so, and a future club captain .... mark my words !!!
I do agree we are desperate for a new quality Centre Back and I would love Micah Richards although he limped off the other night injured, but remember last season we had one of the best home defensive records in the League and away wasn't too bad either.... with Dawson and A N other for most of the season !!!!!!
:nods: :nods: :nods: :nods: :nods:
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I agree Corluka isnt a CB, tho he started his career there and therefore does have experience playing there.
for me, the match highlighted the danger this year of playing without either King or Bassong, if Dawson is to be considered as the other CB - thanks Vilareal for showing this clearly last night to everyone watching the game.
I agree that we shouldnt take the result to heart, cos their last 2 goals were against the run of play in the 2nd half, and they were v.lucky with the 3rd goal - in off Corluka.
the BALANCE of the side needs to be considered foremost, and not just to include 'bigname' players in a shoe-horned fashion, to appease the fans and take the easy option.
the balance of the team was severely affected after Jenas was injured, and the midfield had no defensive cohesion and offered v.little support to the back4 by covering/tracking opposing midfielders, leaving them acres to pick out thru'balls into space behind our slow CBs.
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Mate you need to remember, Corluka helped us alot and without him we would have no control what so ever on the right back. Sure lennon tracks back but you need to remember if Lennon goes up and lose possession Charlie gets the ball back for us or clear it. In fact to me Lennon did so effing well last season was purely down to Charlie being behind him. Lennon have no worries about tracking back (well he does track back) since Charlie is there.
Imagine it was Hutton there, 1st half against Villareal Hutton was skinned. Dawson and Corluka in CB aint good. Dawson and Bassong would be better~ I think we really should get another CB ready.
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I disagree about RB, as I feel Kaboul is alot better than Corluka.... all the plusses (tall, good on ball, can attack, can tackle) but without the minuses (chronic lack of pace and lack of agility at changing direction fast)..
think Arry will play Kaboul when fit as the 1st choice.
deffo needa new CB option tho, as King is absent alot, and Woody is crocked, games coming thick and fast this season with either CL or Europa League.
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I disagree about RB, as I feel Kaboul is alot better than Corluka.... all the plusses (tall, good on ball, can attack, can tackle) but without the minuses (chronic lack of pace and lack of agility at changing direction fast)..
think Arry will play Kaboul when fit as the 1st choice.
deffo needa new CB option tho, as King is absent alot, and Woody is crocked, games coming thick and fast this season with either CL or Europa League.
Both Players are 24 years old Corluka is an inch taller than Kaboul at 6' 4' and 7kg heavier plus Corluka has 25 International caps at right back for Croatia.
I think if anything Corluka will start at RB and Kaboul may be partnering Dawson in the middle !!!!!
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We definitely need cover for CB, and should not put Hudd, or Charlie at CB out of position, and definitely not Palacios in the FA cup loss to Portsmouth, he dropped back there for a moment and it all went to pieces, this season is huge we can't afford to be messing around not putting our strongest team forward we will get punished like the Villareal game, yes only a pre-season friendly but if the scoreline was the other way we would have taken it very seriously, atleast it gives us an indication at where we are at and there is a lot of hard work to do, to improve before the season opener.
Corluka and Kaboul both were great at RB, we have a plethora of RB options, I don't know why we have kept Hutton, we have 2 right backs better than him and he won't get a game unless they are injured, then we still have Kyle1 and Kyle2, Naughton and Walker who are admittedly still at the developing stages but both have potential.
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lol, I cannot believe someone is actually extolling Corluka over Kaboul due to his 1 inch height and 7kgs weight advantage (?)..
might as well have Klitschko in our team at RB in that case.... or maybe Joe Bugner.
agree that we are well catered for at RB, but I think we wwould sell Hutton if anyone bid over 3.5m (which they havent).... I actually see him as a goood understudy to Lennon as a RM - similar pace, can beat players on the outside, good crosser, v.good at attacking the box when point-of-attack from the left..
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I disagree about RB, as I feel Kaboul is alot better than Corluka.... all the plusses (tall, good on ball, can attack, can tackle) but without the minuses (chronic lack of pace and lack of agility at changing direction fast)..
Point I was making is there is very little if no difference between the two except one's a CB one's a right back and both can interchange. Ok I'll give you that Kaboul is a marginally better Right back than Corluka is a Centre Back but that's it both do a job if asked to play out of position. You don't win 25 Caps for your country if you are no good especially if your part of the Croatian team, players need to play in position otherwise you'll end up with a complete carve up like the Scousers.
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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I think Corluka's weaknesses at RB have been well camouflaged by having Lennon at RM who tracks back v.well and assists him alot when defending.... Kaboul (and I'm not his agent btw) has more power and pace, especially on the recovery, to both dewfend, attack and then spring back into defence again (something Corluka lacks)..
due to Corluka's weakness, Lennon has been tied down alot on the right flank, and dare not move infield too much, in case Corluka is exposed.
if we play Corluka ahead of Kaboul at RB as 1st choice this season.... after Kaboul played so well there in both defence AND attack rightside, in the last 5-6 games of season.. I shall be very surprised.
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I think Corluka's weaknesses at RB have been well camouflaged by having Lennon at RM who tracks back v.well and assists him alot when defending.... Kaboul (and I'm not his agent btw) has more power and pace, especially on the recovery, to both dewfend, attack and then spring back into defence again (something Corluka lacks)..
due to Corluka's weakness, Lennon has been tied down alot on the right flank, and dare not move infield too much, in case Corluka is exposed.
if we play Corluka ahead of Kaboul at RB as 1st choice this season.... after Kaboul played so well there in both defence AND attack rightside, in the last 5-6 games of season.. I shall be very surprised.
Do you support Woolwich Wanderers or something because you seem to have a right downer on most of the side at the moment !!!!
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most of the side ??
Corluka is not THAT good - is that so hard to believe ?
Dawson is good but deffo needs a 'senior partner' with pace at CB alongside him eg. King.
the 25 other members of the squad, I'm quite happy with.
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i've always thought charlie was pretty solid as a rb and ok as emergency cb. still think we need a quality cb with cl experience tho
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still think we need a quality cb with cl experience tho
Me to, personally i think this should be at the top of our list.
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I wonder why we didn't go after Marquez ?????
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Nope Dawson maybe Corluka... Hell no!
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who are the possible and viable candidates for our new CB ??
needs to be experienced in a big league, with pace (we have enough slow possible CBs with Dawson, Corluka, T|Hudd), and not too pricey (< 7m quid), preferably English-speaking, and predominantly plays as the rightside CB.... who are we linked with that also fits the bill ??
Curtis Davies
Micah Richards (but would s**ttey sell to US ??)
Tasci (young good German-Turk, made WC squad for Germany, but strongly linked with Arse)
Diakhate (African CB playing in Russia, CL experienced, good player)
Anton Ferdinand - talented, but wayward (could Arry straighthen him out tho ??)
personally, I'd also add Nicolas Burdisso to the list..... very experienced Argie CB, loaned to Roma from Inter Milan, excellent game-reader and CL experienced, can even play RB...... possibly available on loan again (so cheap too)
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Not sure I agree with you Gareth.
Dawson does need the right partner, someone like King is perfect, but Bassong does a good job, and as long as the other partner has pace then they work very well. Daws has a lot to his game. Good with his feet and ehad, very good at reading the ball and his distribution is superb. Occasionally he is beaten by pace in behind but with the right partner this isn't important as it will be covered. I think Daws will be captain this year and we need to get behind him and hope he has another fantastic season. I do think we need to do our best to sign Richards though.
As for Corluka I really like him. Yes he isn't a centre back, but he is a very solid right back and an important link in our team. Kaboul is very good back up all over the pitch, but Charlie is experienced and rarely does a left winger dominate him.
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Corluka has been great for us, not sure what you have been watching, hes only weakness is his pace, but I haven't seen it being that much of a problem, Dawson is slightly prone to being skinned also, so I see your point. Kaboul has filled in very well when required, he does seem to have good pace, and decent cross, he provides good competition at RB, and should get a few games, although Harry does love his Croatians and their work ethic, I wouldn't want to see either of them at CB, lets just hope Dawson and Bassong stay fit, and Ledley gets in a few games, we really are flogging a dead horse with him, great player and club legend, but it just doesn't make sense to keep him past this season, we need a quality replacement, same goes for Woody, I fully understand why we are showing loyalty to him for his years of service, but really we need someone who can play 2 games in a row, finding a solid center pairing and keeping them together is integral to our defence.
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I dont think King's contract renewal came outta sympathy/loyalty... he just happens to be a near world-class CB that even Capello thought worthwhile to chance (and he rarely goes with injury-prone players)...
as long as he can play 1 game a week, we'll be getting a fantastic player.... lets not forget his knee-condition is manageable and therefore he can be scheduled to play, as long as he doesnt have to play 3 games a week (as he in fact, successfully did at last season-end)..
Arry will have to decide on whether to play him in Europe or the Prem... last year, we didnt have to make that choice as: no Europe)... he could even play in both Europe and Prem games in same week, as long as a 3rd game isnt due for him for 5-6 days to recover in)..
Bassong is more than just a deputy for King, and is excellent in his own right.... our starting CB-pairing against Pool in the Prem opener last year was in fact King-Bassong.... and we didnt do too badly then (esp. Bassong)..
but we do need another experienced CB to alllow for injuries/suspensions etc.... and I think Arry will bring in Curtis Davies in p/x for either Keano or Bentley..
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Not really a fan of Curtis Davis, seems like an average journey man to me. Lots of teams without really settling anywhere and never really shinning.
Miche Richards would be my choice.
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Not really a fan of Curtis Davis, seems like an average journey man to me. Lots of teams without really settling anywhere and never really shinning.
Miche Richards would be my choice.
Totally agree Richards would be my first choice, but what about Jagielka may be a useful addition and better than Davies, Upson Etc......
??? ::) ??? ::) ???
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Ledley did manage 19 games last season, and played the last 4 or so, and a big part of our top 4 success, I just fear him, if he gets injured again could be the end of his career, I was very surprised with his England call up, not because of his quality just with the WC schedule I didn't think he would hold up, which he didn't, what did he play 20mins? We definitely need cover at CB, that is my point.
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Not really a fan of Curtis Davis, seems like an average journey man to me. Lots of teams without really settling anywhere and never really shinning.
Miche Richards would be my choice.
Totally agree Richards would be my first choice, but what about Jagielka may be a useful addition and better than Davies, Upson Etc......
??? ::) ??? ::) ???
I don't think Moyes would sell Jagielka.
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Ledley did manage 19 games last season, and played the last 4 or so, and a big part of our top 4 success, I just fear him, if he gets injured again could be the end of his career, I was very surprised with his England call up, not because of his quality just with the WC schedule I didn't think he would hold up, which he didn't, what did he play 20mins? We definitely need cover at CB, that is my point.
But Ledley had a groin strain nothing to do with his knee !!!!! So I think Ledley was just a tad unlucky on that front anyway with him not playing for England may well of done us a favour.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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So Corluka plays a couple of games at CB, and suddenley all is lost, our CBs are going to get skinned every game and we're going to fail this season. Jesus F Christ people calm down. Charlie is a RB!!!! Ok Kaboul only filled in because Charlie was injured, he is NOT our first choice RB. For cryining out loud. For one of our Pre-Seaons games we had a back line full of RBs, so what its only pre-season, calm the Feck down. Daws, and Bassong/King did fine last season as a partnership. Yes Daws can occasionally get skinned by pace, thats why he has King/Basssong for a CB partner. As for Charlie, he may not be the fastest player on the planet but he reads the game well and thats what makes him a great RB, as for talk of Charlie hampering Lennons ability, what the hell are you on, do you light up a joint before you watch every match or something, Charlies part of the reason that Lennon has come on leaps and bounds.
Bloody hell lighten the frell up!!!!
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So Corluka plays a couple of games at CB, and suddenley all is lost, our CBs are going to get skinned every game and we're going to fail this season. Jesus F Christ people calm down. Charlie is a RB!!!! Ok Kaboul only filled in because Charlie was injured, he is NOT our first choice RB. For cryining out loud. For one of our Pre-Seaons games we had a back line full of RBs, so what its only pre-season, calm the Feck down. Daws, and Bassong/King did fine last season as a partnership. Yes Daws can occasionally get skinned by pace, thats why he has King/Basssong for a CB partner. As for Charlie, he may not be the fastest player on the planet but he reads the game well and thats what makes him a great RB, as for talk of Charlie hampering Lennons ability, what the hell are you on, do you light up a joint before you watch every match or something, Charlies part of the reason that Lennon has come on leaps and bounds.
Bloody hell lighten the frell up!!!!
Here here, Well said !!!!!!
:up:
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so in your great wisdom you'd have Dawson at right CB and Corluka as our RB..... probably the slowest rightside defence in the entire league...
we might get away with 1 of those in the team... but both playing alongside each other, thereby making it difficult to cover a large contiguous area for a lack of pace ??.... we'd deserve everything we get..
if as I think, Dawson will start at right CB then its imperative that he's covered on his right by the pace of Kaboul to compensate.... as well as King/Bassong to Dawson's left.....
I'd be shocked if Arry played both Dawson and Corluka in the same team anymore (unless forced to by injuries etc)
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Corluka at RB and Dawson at CB are good players, Corluka 1 st class, Dawson still slightly off being top drawer. Need another CB - I would like Cahill from Bolton.. or Jagielka from Everton. Then we are solid....
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together, Dawson at CB on the rightside next to Corluka at RB tactically is a disaster waiting to happen..
I trust Arry not to shoot himself in the foot with that option..
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so in your great wisdom you'd have Dawson at right CB and Corluka as our RB..... probably the slowest rightside defence in the entire league...
we might get away with 1 of those in the team... but both playing alongside each other, thereby making it difficult to cover a large contiguous area for a lack of pace ??.... we'd deserve everything we get..
if as I think, Dawson will start at right CB then its imperative that he's covered on his right by the pace of Kaboul to compensate.... as well as King/Bassong to Dawson's left.....
I'd be shocked if Arry played both Dawson and Corluka in the same team anymore (unless forced to by injuries etc)
together, Dawson at CB on the rightside next to Corluka at RB tactically is a disaster waiting to happen..
I trust Arry not to shoot himself in the foot with that option..
Yeah Gareth, I agree Charlie and Daws in the same team is a disater, I mean last season we were knocked out of every cup competition at the first stage, and got relegated. We have absolutley no hope for next season, League 1 here we come You know i've always liked the red side of North London. Oh and heres a tip for any Managers reading this, you had best start recruiting 100m sprinters becasue pace is the only attribute that would win a match, being able to read the game is just some hocus pocus that coaches like to the fat kids in order to get them to play. So lets sign Dwain Chambers, I believe he will be free during the summer of 2012.
Sorry for that lads, I just wanted to know what it was like to talk absolute bullsh*t, I can see why you enjoy it Gareth. Honestly if you think that Charlie and Daws are that bad then you've got to stop going to the Bricklayers before games, it's reeeeeeeeaaally clouding your judgement. :up:
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Sorry for that lads, I just wanted to know what it was like to talk absolute bullsh*t, I can see why you enjoy it Gareth. Honestly if you think that Charlie and Daws are that bad then you've got to stop going to the Bricklayers before games, it's reeeeeeeeaaally clouding your judgement. :up:
Spot on mate, we really are crap with Daws and Charlie hell we would be light years away from qualifying for the Champs League or beating any of the so called Big Four etc
Ps Gareth do us a favour and give it a rest now it's becoming really tedious and to be fair your so far off the mark you could play up front for the Woolwich Wanderers !!!!!
:D :up: :D :up:
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LoL Honestly i dont know why Charlie and Daws cant work together. It isnt as bad as Bassong and BAE on the left. 2 right footer players on the right, 2 left footed players on the left. Its the perfect combo im telling yah!
In anycase based on my pov i think we win most of our games with Charlie and Daws playing together. Not to mention with King on the side we hardly concede! *Note that im not saying we never concede with king playing*
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I don't rate Corluka at CB.. and dawson has shown before in my eyes that hee needs a decent CB along side him for him to play well.
i agree a new CB is needed
First goal from bad kick out fom Gomes, perfect cross, not their fault
Corluka is a liability more often that not, giving the ball away far too often
So I agree
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your man-crushes on Dawson and Corluka are reasonable enough, as I think we can get by with 1 of them in the Back4...
but both there next to each other, covering the rightside together would certainly be entertaining at least for the opposing fans.... so its nice of you to think of their welfare and value-for-money so much.....
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Ok then, mate, whats driven to deciding that Charlie and Daws make such a bad combination, I mean considering pretty much every other spurs fan disagrees with you and so does a certain 63 year old cockney man, who lets just say knows what the f*ck he's doing!!
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if Sandbanks Arry starts both Corluka at RB and Dawson at CB in the next few games, I shall humbly beg for your forgiveness..
personally, I'd go with Kaboul as our regular RB and use Walker to cover the position... Corluka should move on in January.
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looks like Gallas may well be coming to relegate Dawson back to the bench.... the perfect addition at CB with extensive Prem-winning and CL experience, still got more pace than Dawson despite his age, no major injuries to date, FREE TRANSFER, can even play at RB, and captain Spurs in King's absence.....
TICKS A WHOLE LOAD OF BOXES.
give him the 2yr deal that he wants and lets get the transfer-window moving..
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Captain Spurs when king is out?! ARE You out of your minD!!! WHICH Fan WOULD ACCEPT THAT?!!
Ex GOoner capitan~! omg.. if he does come and gets the armband ill personally shoot 'Arry!
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typical short-sighted Spurs fan..... cutting your nose off to spite your face..
in case you hadnt noticed they took 1 of ours not long ago and did rather well..... Galllas also played mostly with Chavski not Arse..
maybe we should strike the League Cup win from the record-books under the man with the raincoat too.... would that make you feel better diddums ??
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looks like Gallas may well be coming to relegate Dawson back to the bench.... the perfect addition at CB with extensive Prem-winning and CL experience, still got more pace than Dawson despite his age, no major injuries to date, FREE TRANSFER, can even play at RB, and captain Spurs in King's absence.....
TICKS A WHOLE LOAD OF BOXES.
give him the 2yr deal that he wants and lets get the transfer-window moving..
I would have thought that he would be cover for King and Bassong to play alongside Dawson as I would think that Dawson is a nailed on to start every game as long as he is fit !!!!
Personally I wouldn't sign him for a couple of reasons he's is ex scum and past it and two he has a real attitude problem and sulks over the slightest thing.
It seems that you like to just be very controversal Gareth, and try and stir things up a bit.
:nope:
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does mentally unstable count as an injury????
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I dont agree that Gallas (if he comes to Spurs) will be used to cover King as Bassong does that for the left-CB slot....
Gallas if he comes will play... the guy for the last 7-8yrs has played mainly as the rightsided CB therefore will be in direct competition with the hardworking, nice blokey bloke but less talented, less experienced and still slower (despite being younger) Dawson..
Gallas at RCB and King/Bassong at LCB..... with Dawson, Walker (even T|Hudd, Corluka) as cover for CB..... that's ample insurance for injuries/suspensions..
I like Dawson, but he still aint as good as a 33yr old Gallas in nearly every criterion a CB needs..
lets LOVE Spurs more than we hate Ars*nal, just for a change eh..
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Now I'm sure that your a Woolwich Wanderers fan..... Dawson along with Bale and Gomes were our best players last season and you are advocating replacing him with an unstable, sulking ex Gooner. If Whinger don't want him then he's obviously passed it, it's got nothing to do with Dawson being a nice bloke or anything like that according to the Official Premier League site top 100 players from last season
Dawson Ranked 62nd......... Gallas Ranked 76th
So if he does come Gallas will be cover for Dawson because over the whole of last season Dawson was a better player than Gallas....fact !!!
Ps just for information Corluka was Ranked 48th
:nods:
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you obviously have your reasons for choosing Dawson.... so I'll just leave it to Arry to decide who starts at RCB if Gallas does come..
paying 80k a week wages for a player to sit on the bench will be just what Arry will be looking to do (when we already have Kaboul, Walker, THudd and orluka who can play CB too).... and Levy too..
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Nice.
And not for nothing, but a player isn't an automatic world-class first-teamer just because he plays for Ars*nal. IMO they've got three players - Cesc, RVP, and Arshavin. Other than that, they're simply above average. Loaded with young "talented" midfielders who are "full of potential" and veterans who never quite achieved anything. Spurs are better - top to bottom. FACT.
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comparing players 1 on 1 is always a mistake.... it takes into no account how they blend as a team, the team's formation, player-chemistry, etc etc..
if you go with that old assumption, then Man City should have finished higher than us even last season.... and did they ??
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comparing players 1 on 1 is always a mistake.... it takes into no account how they blend as a team, the team's formation, player-chemistry, etc etc..
if you go with that old assumption, then Man City should have finished higher than us even last season.... and did they ??
Official Premier League Top 100 Players
Gomes........40th
Corluka.......48th
BAE...........50th
Dawson......62nd
So 4 of our back 5 made the top 100 no problem with Chemistry, Blend, Formation etc etc
I've watched football for 40 years and like to think I know a decent player when I see one, Dawson will die for you put his body on the line rather than let the ball into his net. Gallas will check his bank account first, over rated, over payed and emotionally unstable...... No thanks !!!!
I'll take effort and heart over someone looking for one last pay day.... and by the way how good has the Woolwich Wanderers defence been for the last 4 seasons ??
:nods:
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Defending involves a tad more than just sticking your body in the way of a shot near the goal-line.... if it was that simple Dawson would be coming up to his 50th England cap by now...
remind me how many he has again ??
youre now making me into a Dawson-basher and I dont wanna be.... he's a decent enough player with the right guys around him (abit like Terry).... but he's not what I regard as a top-class centre-half..
if Arry gets in Gallas, then you'll see for yourself where Dawson is in the pecking-order....
if Dawson wants to push for England and play regular 1st-team football, then he may need to move... but I'd like him to stay at Spurs tho' as he'd be good enough backup..
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You do know Dawson didnt play because Capello lied about choosing players based on Form. Sure Terry is no.1 because he helped chelsea won the League.
But where did Upson came from? It should have been Dawson. See why ur saying about caps is definitely out. Wenger is a great coach and i would have to assume his bad attitude and he is such a mess i doubt he could perform like when he is at em Gooners.
Gallas by no mean is a top centre half. A top centre half to me should be in the form of Carvalho and of course King. These 2 players represents the best of the best but of course im not trying to be bias just because Gallas plays for Ars*nal mind you. Varmalen would be better than Gallas in the coming years and he got the quality if it wasnt for his lapse of concentration.
But facts are facts though, you cant disprove facts by saying based on reputation of a player from so called *bigger club* Ars*nal.
Daws ranked 62. Charlie 48.
About Mancs players. If they did blend, they should have been above us. They didnt, their squad really ran out of ideas once the team they meet digs deep in front of em. Sure they have the talent in their squad but whats the use if you barely know the team. Ours in the meanwhile gelled and know where/who is at on the pitch. Surely the win against Ars*nal,Chelsea, Mancs wasnt a fluke and Wenger himself said *If they want to prove themselves they should win against Chelsea* and we did. Who was playing at the back? Dawson did, Charlie did.. Gomes was left to do his job with no problems.
Again this year they will never have the proper time to blend. So far im seeing their friendlies are going bad. Ours are good , aint super but friendlies arent real games but still playing with mismatch formation and players shows our team gelled properly. Mancs failed to do that.
Back to Gallas, He used to be awesome, if we got him during his peak i wouldnt mind. But at 32? Thats a huge gamble for a player who woulnd't listen to his team mates at all. Judas Sol was taken from us during his peak so its a huge difference why Gallas would be a bad choice. Id rather play Bassong/Dawson or Kaboul/Dawson instead of Gallas/Bassong Gallas/Kaboul.
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if you just pick players according to some contrived formula and call it form, then why do we need managers to pick teams at all at intl. level ??.... lets just use some computer-program instead..
Form is temporary, Class is permanent..
Dawson had good FORM last season as the whole team played well and he also upped his game (from a very low base of previous seasons - or have you forgotten ??)...
if the German manager had relied purely on form to pick his WC team, then neither Podolski nor Klose would I guess have featured - as theese 2 had very ordinary FORM at their respective clubs Stuttgart and Bayern Munich..
Form is but 1 of the factors for consideration..
I see from tonight's starting XI that Dawson STILL hasnt managed to win his 1st cap for the mighty all-conquering England.... maybe he should find a Northern Irish grandparent pronto ??...
about Gallas.... his form last year was pretty good and his leaving Ars*nal had little to do with any rapid demise of ability.... rather that he wanted a 2yr deal at Ars*nal and Wenger is ideologically against giving over-30s anymore than 1yr contract extensions.... THATS WHY he left, not cos he aint good enough to play at CL level (unlike Dawson unfortunately)..
about Citeh.... youve just proven my poingt totally about the silliness of comparing players on teamsheets man-for-man... there are so many other factors that make a successful team than just the individual ability of players..,, on paper the conventions dictated that we had an inferior squad/team than Citeh's, but we still beat them twice in the league convincingly AND finished above them after 38 games.... I rest my case.
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oh dear oh dear......
:-[
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Dawson will die for you put his body on the line rather than let the ball into his net.
oh dear oh dear......
Just seen evidence to that, Daws actually stopped the ball crossing the line, and somehow ended up with a bloody nose come the end of the match.
Form is temporary, Class is permanent..
Gallas has neither.
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I guess your idea of a good fighter is the guy with the cauliflower ears, Steve Bruce conk and scar-tissue around each eye-socket...
Mine would be the guy with the sweet face and the full mouth of pearly-white teeth..
Dawson playing against continental-style, sophisticated football with good movement and short-passing will be cut to ribbons time and time again...
tonight's typical play whereby he will make a horrendous error, then have the temerity to try and hide it with a bloody-nose (to show his passion and commitment) just encapsulates what Dawson is about..
he is a good old-fashioned type of CB, who can happily get down and dirty, to hopefully cover his fatal weaknesses of slowness of thought and movement...... but great at heading away opposing GK-clearances tho'...
Gallas just added 5k a week to his wage-packet with Spurs methinks..
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No mate, he didnt try and hide an error with a bloody nose, he attoned for is error when he got straight up and sprinted back to defend his goal, which he bloody did, only to the ref and linesman to cock up the decision. The bloody nose came about through hard work and determination to play well for his team, and I'd chose that every single time over some ex-scummy french c*nt who belongs in an insane asylum. Sure Daws may not be the fastest player in the world, but you seem to forget that on the big occasions he has one of the best CB's in the world standing right next to him, so pace is no worry when we've got Ledley, and before you go "oh so without Ledley, we're f*cked," No thats why we have Seb. As for Charlie, if on occasion he does let a player get past him, we've got two of the best denfesive headers in the game in Daws and Ledley. THATS what being a team is all about mate, covering up your teamates weaknesses with your strengths, no team in the world is full of perfect players, moreover there is no pefect player. Thats how we broke into the top 4 last season mate, through being a team, and part of the team is the most stable, consitent and resilient back 4 that we've had at the lane for years, which seems to have done ok without the fastest players in the world.
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YidJoe Breathe !!!!!!
And here here mate couldn't of put it better !!!!
:nods:
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Let's put an end to this pointless discussion talking for myself and from what I can tell 99% of the rest of the forum this is how it is.
Call it old fashioned, narrow minded, bloody mindedness, stupidity or just plain passion Gallas is an ex Scum player who has a mental problem, Dawson is part of our back four and loved by the majority of the WHL faithful. Gallas is 32 and wants £80,000 a week and we just don't want him not now not never because he is a bloody liability. You can argue about his good points but the majority can only see bad points, if you are truly a Spurs fan then you will understand why we don't want him, if you've ever been the on the Shelf when we've played the Scum, in fact if you've ever been to the ground when we played the Scum you'd unsterstand !!!!!!!
It's really that simple he's from the Scum down the road and we just don't want him because we think we have better, no we know we have better, in Michael Dawson !!!!!
:)
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I guess I just happen to love Spurs more than you hate anything to do wit them down the road..
pity your happiness in your team depends so much on the external factors of another team..
it seems that the golden get-out clause for Dawson always seems to be 'oh but he's okay with 'xyz' next to him to hold his hand'..... I prefer my defenders to be good enough to stand on their OWN 2 feet, and not be so dependent on others..
Bienvenue William...
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I bided my time on the subject but thought it is time to weigh in on the allegedly flawed Dawon Corluka right sided partnership. Judging by the responses its safe to say Gareth has a very different opinion of the partnership, which he is completely entitled to. However I would like to put the issue to bed once and for all. Firstly I understand where Gareth is coming from, that Dawson and Corluka both lack pace, which makes them more prone to being skinned, and therefore a flawed right sided partnership, and this would be entirely true if pace was the only factor CB’s were judged upon, but they are not.
For the first 13 games of the past EPL season Dawson and Corluka did not start together, King, and Bassong where preferred, and until Woodgate got injured Harry tried putting him in the side wherever possible, unfortunately he was then injured and hardly featured. After this Harry definitely had a preference for the Dawson, Corluka right sided partnership, as they played together the next 13 games in a row unchanged, the partnership was then only broken for one game until, it was broken again due to the injury of Corluka who didn’t play another game during the season.
Once the partnership began after the first 13 games, Dawson and Corluka started alongside each other 17 times our of the next 18 games of the EPL season and the partnership was ultimately a successful one, and was paramount to the clubs success and top four berth. Out of 17 games Tottenham won 9, drew, 6, and lost only 2 games, with 8 clean sheets, and amazingly only 11 goals conceded out of 17 games.
That being said we still have some great defenders, in Dawson, Bassong, King, Bale, Assout-Ekotto, Kaboul and Corluka, and they all crucially played their role and did what was needed for the club, the main weakness is the depth at CB, King once again be played intermittently, it is unclear whether Woodgate will play again, so we have a total of 3 fit Centerbacks, if either Dawson or Bassong are injured we will be forced to play people out of position, we have some great versatile players, but this really will be our Achilles and could majorly be our undoing this season after all last years hard work, especially with such a grueling schedule, even more games this season particularly if we make it to CL group stages, so strengthening this area and adding another quality CB, must be our priority, and with Woodgate and King, in the latter years of their careers, we should start grooming replacements for both.
If Harry can't find a better replacement then Gallas, then we should except him with open arms, and forget who he has played for, the important factors to consider is what can he do for us, his experience in CL and the EPL is very positive, however I have reservations over his wage demands as he definitely isn't worth breaking the wage structure for, despite being a bosman., and getting such a player is he is closer to the end of their career also with age comes proneness to injury, we don't want another geraiatric with a walking stick. If Gallas can remain fit, and take a pay cut then this would be an ideal move for us, but they are big questions that need to be answered. At last resort if we could not get any one else in I would definitely say yes.
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Corluka only good against certain opposition. Speed wingers can leave him for dead. But he is versatile, and that can be important when it comes to injuries.
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Although here's another interesting fact. Ive stumbled into a few of them Ars*nal's blog. It seems theres rumours about Wenger inquiring about Dawson~ What bout that?
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What about it, doesn't mean anything, maybe Ars*nal need to up their homegrown quota? obviously not available, would have to pay crazy money to prize him away plus offer a replacement, we a short on CB's why would we sell?
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EXCELLENT summation by Dom07 above - best post I've read on here for a while.
let me say again, I like Dawson and think he's a good player..... my reservations about going into a CL season with him is that against the continental-style teams to be encountered he may be a liability, not just cos of a lack of pace but his mindset and general ability doesnt lend itself to quick movement and short-passing in the final-third... last nights incident doesnt prove anything either way, but it does echo a theme familiar to him from seasons past (tho yes, he has improved last season)..
about Gallas.... people keep on about 'if he can prove his fitness' or 'if he can stay fit' etc..... doesnt that go for any player in the squad ??.... at this moment, Gallas does not have any fitness/injury problems so it is a red-herring to keep mention these as issues. The guy is very athletic, still has pace, won't break the wage-structure as he will accept 80k a week (that 1 or 2 are on now), as the experience we will NEED in Europe especially, and if King is absent (other CBs tho good, lack experienced leadership needed in a Back4)..
the issue that stopped Gallas from joining R.Madrid last month was that he wanted a 2yr deal (they offered 1yr). If he hadnt played for Ars*nal, I'm sure most would be v.keen to get him (on a free-transfer too) as his many credentials (in ability, experience, athleticism, fitness, captaining experience both for top clubs and France) would represent an improvement in our squad/team quality.
our options for a new CB are not limitless, and Prem and CL are just around the corner..... time to look at the bigger picture.
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What about the fact that we're after Richards, hmmmmmm. If we get him, we don't need anyone else at the back. Even now we're well covered at CB.
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youre absolutely right.... cos Citeh are dying to strengthen us by selling players of the calibre of Richards and Bellamy..
heres a real stab in the dark.... Richards and Bellamy will sooner be mothballed on full pay til next season at least, before Citeh send them to possibly their biggest rival to a Top4 place..... even if they chuck away 20m by doing so.
W.G. awaits.
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they have heart and desire, but still believe a world class defender is needed, and a new left back.... Bale should stay out left in midfield
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Yeah Charlie and Daws got completely raped by City's pace today didn't they.
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1 game doesnt prove/disprive anything.... but have to agree that both Corluka and Dawson did very well indeedy against Citeh...
all the fundamentals were against us in theory today, as Citeh played 3 in central-midfield to our 2 in THudd-Modric (not that noted for defensive excellence) wit a very fluid (on paper) quartet of Barry, Silva, SWP and Tevez behind 2 DMs: Toure and de Jong....
a bit like the flying bumble-bee in the 1st half especially, it shouldnt fly but it did spectacularly (despite 0-0).... then maybe predictably, we lost abit of steam in the midfield in the 2nd half...
with Gallas and Remy still to come....... is the title beaconing even after just 1 match ??
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there are those who say Corluka is our best RB as he compliments Lennon so well... I actually think its waaaay the other way around, inthat Lennon's dynamism and ability to track back makes Corluka look twice the player he truly is - Arry I think knows this now and will start Kaboul at RB when fit.
Kaboul better than Corluka? Haha! Say what you will about Corluka but Kaboul is not better...that is for sure.
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1 game doesnt prove/disprive anything.... but have to agree that both Corluka and Dawson did very well indeedy against Citeh...
all the fundamentals were against us in theory today, as Citeh played 3 in central-midfield to our 2 in THudd-Modric (not that noted for defensive excellence) wit a very fluid (on paper) quartet of Barry, Silva, SWP and Tevez behind 2 DMs: Toure and de Jong....
a bit like the flying bumble-bee in the 1st half especially, it shouldnt fly but it did spectacularly (despite 0-0).... then maybe predictably, we lost abit of steam in the midfield in the 2nd half...
with Gallas and Remy still to come....... is the title beaconing even after just 1 match ??
Do you you spout Sh**e for a living ?
:2funny:
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surprised Ledley played yesterday... I guess Arry feels he's good enough to play 2 in 4 days, which is great news..
I think that until we get that experienced CB we're after, then it makes sense to keep Kaboul as cover for CB until then, and play Corluka at RB....
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I think Harry said before that he will leave him out of the Young Boys away game because of the astroturf, do they have a closed stadium also?, astroturf in a closed stadium gets very greasy and slippery, which brings back nightmares of the FA cup loss to Portsmouth, especially for Dawson.
I hope we learned a few things from that day, Portsmouth and the greasy pitch, made us look ordinary at the back.
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it quite the old astro-turf, apparently its very similar to grass.... the slipperiness should be similar to what we are used to on grass after a drizzle or watering... dont think the conditions should be that important..
I have a feeling we will play a different system to yesterday's and use Modric at LM with Bale/BAE at LB.... away in Europe, Arry will play a more defensively-robust CM pairing eg. Palacios-THudd...
hopefully Gallas and Remy arrive soon.... pray that Parker DOESNT !!
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I found out today that our pitch has astroturf in with the grass making it stronger to deal with it shredding up etc. Now there's today's fact of the day.
Back to the game. I wouldn't be surprised if King isn't risked. I think Harry will go with Bassong and Daws at the back on tues.
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I personally think 'Arry will pretty much play the same side as Saturday, maybe Palacious in for Huddlestone but apart from that no difference !!
:)
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Why would he swap hudd for palacios?
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Why would he swap hudd for palacios?
I just thought that Hudd had a quiet game and didn't really get stuck in dedley, that's all. Just my own personal opinion cos we don't want to concede away to Young Boys, a good solid away performance with 10 men behind the ball and hit em on the break !!!
;)
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great game lat night to perfectly highlight the inadequacies of Pinky and Perky..
the 2nd goal especially was a classic Pinkyism..... and where was Perky when Pinky was totally exposed on the rightside before the cross inevitably came in only for the guy to shoot over the bar ??... I guess he was pooteling back into position at 6mph in that strange flat-footed 'walking-run' of his,after being stranded upfield.... again..
thanks for making it so much easier now for Arry to get Gallas in within the next week or so...
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For someone who "loves Spurs more than he hates the competition", you sure don't have much love for our boys at the back. We get it...they're slow! But who else are we going to play? Corluka and Dawson are the best players we have at each position. Chirp all you want about Charley but the guy is solid and consistent, and we clearly weren't going to play Ledley on an artificial surface. So, in your own words, "why moan about it?" I guarantee you the club is doing everything within its means to shore up the position.
Besides, we are going to win next Wednesday. Be happy dude - stay positive!
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I think you'll find that almost the whole team was having a mistake last night and singleling out one incident when the whole defence was a shambles is a bit harsh. Yes Dawson was caught but even your saviour Gallas would not of been able to turn and catch their forward from that position, and to be fair if Palacious hadn't given the ball away then nobody would of been caught anywhere. Bassong and BAE were caught for the 3rd goal in almost the same way so ce la vie !!!
:(
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1 game doesnt prove/disprive anything....
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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individually Corluka and Dawson are not bad per se...
after my chirpings on about it so much - yous still dont get it do you ??
Dawson with pace on either side with Kaboul and King/Bassong = very good
Corluka at RB with pacey Kaboul/King at rightside-CB = very good
slow Corluka (RB) with slow Dawson( rightside-CB) = VERY VERY BAD
there.... do you now get the gist ??...... finally..
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Mate I'm not retarded, I can see what you're saying, so just because I disagree with you does not make me illiterate, you have to understand that your OPINION is not bonefide fact. I've yet to see you come up of many examples of where Daws and Charlie as a pairing has actually cost the side.
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I think you'll find that almost the whole team was having a mistake last night and singleling out one incident when the whole defence was a shambles is a bit harsh. Yes Dawson was caught but even your saviour Gallas would not of been able to turn and catch their forward from that position, and to be fair if Palacious hadn't given the ball away then nobody would of been caught anywhere. Bassong and BAE were caught for the 3rd goal in almost the same way so ce la vie !!!
:(
yes I agree that the whole defence and central-midfield played badly.... but it wasnt helped (and greatly caused) by an inability to play well with the back4 pushed upfield - for the fear of being skinned on our rightside..
particularly for the 3rd goal, this caused our back4 to defend too deeply, leaving a chasm between our midfield and Back4 lines with huge holes for their players to flit into without being picked up...... the guy that scored the 3rd goal positioned himself 8-10yds in front of the Backline and still at least 5yds away from our midfield line, to pick up ythe ball..... that gap is simply too huge.... Bassong couldnt leave his post and go charging up almost into midfield and Modric (the nearest CM) couldnt in time go back to cover such a huge area where Constanza was....
very slow rightside ----> defending deep -------> big gap Back4 to midfield line (esp. when our midfield has to go forward to help get equaliser) ----------> very vulnerable in the space between Back4 and midfield (as shown in 3rd goal)..
the alternative when we are behind is to push that Back4 forward to close huge gap to midfield line, and be very vulnerable to pace on our slow rightside.... just ping the ball into the 40yd space behind Corluka and Dawson at will to get all the chances you need to score more goals....
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Honestly, Gareth, I was just giving you a bit of a hard time because we're all die-hard Spurs fans here and I know that your intensity is due to your passion for the club. That being said, please be respectful.
I, along with many others, seem to disagree with your assessment that the other pairings you suggested would be an improvement over Daws and Corluka. I think that, despite their weaknesses, they are still the best players available at each position and give us the best chance for a positive result. Despite all of your well-reasoned tactical analyses, Spurs are rarely beaten on the LEFT SIDE (defensive right) of the field where the alleged weakness lies (happened one time last night). Most goals against are straight up the middle on counters when we give the ball away. And last night BAE was getting tested quite a bit on the other side of the field.
Lighten up my friend 8D WE GET YOU! I just disagree - respectfully. And, yes, I think it would be awesome if one or both of them was faster - lol.
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What about Hudd, imagine him with pace :2up:
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Thud with pace would be EPIC! He'd be like a killer football cyborg.
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lol WilsonJet...... we'll have to agree to disagree on the playability(?) of both Corluka and Dawson combined.... every team has weaknesses I guess, but this 1 seems pretty solvable to me - but then what do I know about managing a CL football team ??
we'll know by 2/9/10 whether Arryboy thinks along similar lines to me, or not as the case may be....
and.... THudd + pace = Jenas (under Jol when he had licence to attack the penalty-area from CM)
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^ yeah and Daws is really faster than Lennon but chooses to be slow ;)
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Dawson is very slow sometimes..... and he can't run very fast either... :P
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Charlie to me is an in and out player...sometimes ok, sometimes not....Daws had a fantastic season last term, but his pace was found out last tuesday...He was not the only one who didnt look up to it tho...apart for his goal what did Pav do? It seems CL will magnify any weaknesses we have, something im sure Harry has to address. Time is running out in this window, but it maybe too late by January if we dont strenghthen the depth of the squad.
BTW does the 25 man squad also include CL or is it just the Prem?
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Including the champs league!