To yid or not to yid?

[aspursfan]

I find this debate very interesting. I was talking to my girlfriend about it and she completely disagrees with me. I think that something like Yid Army represents overcoming racism rather than supporting it.

This was her response:
Let’s just say Tottenham had Vietnamese instead of Jewish roots, and the word in question was “Charlie,” and you, a Vietnamese person visiting England for the first time, attended a Spurs game and had to sit there and listen to the pro-Spurs crowd screaming about how much they love Charlie and how Peter Crouch is our favorite Charlie and Charlie’s gonna stomp them Ars*nal boys, then had to hear the anti-Spurs crowd caterwauling about filthy Charlie with his slanted eyes, Charlie lives in the jungles.  You would be pissed off and offended as s**t, and rightfully so.

I think she has a valid point, but the thing is if you say that yid cannot be used by Spurs supporters for any reason then you make it a bad word again! That simply provides ammunition and more incentive to use it!

[Spurs218]

Maybe we should get rid of the word: "f**k", "s**t", (you see where I'm going here) Most football songs can be deemed as offensive.

[aspursfan]

Or the n word? People, rappers etc. use the n word. But the n word obviously has an extremely racist history. But if the n word was made illegal to say worldwide, it wouldn't stop racists from using it. In fact it would probably just add more venom to it when they do.

[Spurs218]

It's a good debate but also a very hard one to discuss.

[millers-tach]

The world has gone mad.
 
Can't the do-gooders of this world go and save a f*ckin tree or something?
 
   Rant over 

[RiffHard]

I find this debate very interesting. I was talking to my girlfriend about it and she completely disagrees with me. I think that something like Yid Army represents overcoming racism rather than supporting it.

This was her response:
Let’s just say Tottenham had Vietnamese instead of Jewish roots, and the word in question was “Charlie,” and you, a Vietnamese person visiting England for the first time, attended a Spurs game and had to sit there and listen to the pro-Spurs crowd screaming about how much they love Charlie and how Peter Crouch is our favorite Charlie and Charlie’s gonna stomp them Ars*nal boys, then had to hear the anti-Spurs crowd caterwauling about filthy Charlie with his slanted eyes, Charlie lives in the jungles.  You would be pissed off and offended as s**t, and rightfully so.

I think she has a valid point, but the thing is if you say that yid cannot be used by Spurs supporters for any reason then you make it a bad word again! That simply provides ammunition and more incentive to use it!

Charlie was the codename used among US troops during the war in Vietnam, it hasn't got anything to do with ethnicity. Charlie derives from VC (Viet Gong) and as those who have served in army/navy etc. know, there are names for letters thus VC was actually Charlie Victor, in short Charlie.

[aspursfan]

Keep in mind this wasn't my point, it was hers. However, Charlie has gone on from Vietnam to be used as a derogatory term that represents anyone even remotely resembling someone Vietnamese.

Comparisons aside, it would be hard for me to ever think of yid in a negative light. I love Spurs! When I hear yid I think Spurs. I'm normally thinking about football to start with so it doesn't take much!

[Holtspur]

Yeah, the world has gone bonkers. We cannot police what people think. Heavens save us from the thought police! Turning a negative into a positive is the only way. Sure it will still be used against us, but in time the nasties will realise that it no longer hurts, and lets face it, thats all they are trying to do. In response to them chanting "yid" or hissing, our crowd should just chant back "you're calling our name, so you must love us" - in time it will go away. The strange thing is the "n" word. The rappers have got it all wrong - they use it, but if a "honky" uses it, it is suddenly offensive - we dont want that.
There was a very funny play called "The Vagina Monologues" written by Eve Ensler, in which the women identify the crudity and disrespect to women of the "c" word. They embraced the word and started shouting it out until it became part of their identity. There was a very funny episode where the actors picked out a male (one of only a few) in the audience and got him to shout it out - the idea being that it turns a derogatory remark into a positive. Personally, I hate that word, but I am using it as an illustration.

[taimedowne]

I think only a Jewish person could really say if they find the word offensive. I have always felt that us embracing it and turning it into a positive can only be a good thing. It would be interesting to find out what the Jewish community think about us singing Yid army etc. We draw a lot of support from Jewish areas and until recently this has not been an issue. I suspect this stems from the same group of do-gooders who go on about Xmas offending Muslims. I know my fair share of Muslims and none of them are remotely offended by Xmas it is a myth started and perpetuated by people who look for offence where none exists. Most of whom are not Muslim and no little or nothing about what people actually think but delight in lecturing anybody daft enough to listen what they think they should think.     

[ugs]

End of Argument I think see below
 
In Yiddish, the word "Yid" Yiddish: ייד is neutral or even complimentary, and in Ashkenazi Yiddish-speaking circles it is frequently used to mean simply "fellow," "chap," "buddy," "mate," etc., with no expressed emphasis on Jewishness (although this may be implied by the intra-Jewish context)
 
 

[Holtspur]

Thats cool info ugs - makes using the word even less offensive. So when the opposition chant "Yid" they don't know tyhey are calling us "mates" lol. Brill!

[Metalanimal]

End of Argument I think see below
 
In Yiddish, the word "Yid" Yiddish: ייד is neutral or even complimentary, and in Ashkenazi Yiddish-speaking circles it is frequently used to mean simply "fellow," "chap," "buddy," "mate," etc., with no expressed emphasis on Jewishness (although this may be implied by the intra-Jewish context)
 
 

And that ends that! Nice one mate!

 

[baldbloke]

I find this debate very interesting. I was talking to my girlfriend about it and she completely disagrees with me. I think that something like Yid Army represents overcoming racism rather than supporting it.

This was her response:
Let’s just say Tottenham had Vietnamese instead of Jewish roots, and the word in question was “Charlie,” and you, a Vietnamese person visiting England for the first time, attended a Spurs game and had to sit there and listen to the pro-Spurs crowd screaming about how much they love Charlie and how Peter Crouch is our favorite Charlie and Charlie’s gonna stomp them Ars*nal boys, then had to hear the anti-Spurs crowd caterwauling about filthy Charlie with his slanted eyes, Charlie lives in the jungles.  You would be pissed off and offended as s**t, and rightfully so.

I think she has a valid point, but the thing is if you say that yid cannot be used by Spurs supporters for any reason then you make it a bad word again! That simply provides ammunition and more incentive to use it!

Has  your girl  friend got learning difficulties ?

[baldbloke]

Or the n word? People, rappers etc. use the n word. But the n word obviously has an extremely racist history. But if the n word was made illegal to say worldwide, it wouldn't stop racists from using it. In fact it would probably just add more venom to it when they do.

It is acceptable for N's to use the N word as it is acceptable for gay people to call each other Queer or poof, however it is unacceptable for people outside the relative fraternities to use these words. On that basis it should be ok for Spurs supporters to use the Y word.

If you read the original official site statement you will find that it agrees with what I am saying, although only in a round about way.

[Holtspur]

Yep, its double standards that they can use the n word "internally" but they cannot be called it by those not of their persuausion. As I said, the worlds gone bonkers!