SpursNetwork
Tottenham Discussion => Spurs Chat => Topic started by: dimexi on January 20, 2013, 06:08:45 PM
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Thought I was going to be talking about how unlucky we were not to have gotten at least a point. We stiffled United to only 2 chances but looked like that was enough to get all 3 points. However, through guts and determination we pulled off a complete role reversal. Getting a goal in the final seconds was the least we deserved. In fact I think we could have had all 3 points. Well done all the fans that were able to be there and show your support in pretty nasty conditions. The team paid back some of your loyalty.
Now although we managed to get a point I still think that game highlights more than ever, what we have missed, we need to have more quality options. United had only 2 chances, but because of their quality they were able to take one. Whereas, we dominate in certain areas of the pitch, create chances against the top side in the country and in the dying seconds we finally took one.
Now I am in no way taking away from a well earned point, but surely if we just took a chance, just once maybe on getting the best, maybe we could beat the best. It isn't rocket science. I know that AVB came out with the same phrases Harry did about not needing anyone etc. and that is important if you want the current players to know you have faith in them, but he must be asking Levy for some funds in private. If we had signed RVP in the summer I think we would be in the top two, simple.
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I have been saying we need a clinical striker since Berbatov left but while we sit and make do others snap up the top quality players- Ba, Sturridge, Remy, we have been linked with all three and still Mr Levy will not splash the cash !!!! 'Arry asked for a defender and top striker to push on last january and Levy got him Nelson and saha both on frees !!!!!
The limit of Mr Levy's ambition seems to be 4th place and credit to AVB he is delivering that and the more games we play the more I can see what he's trying to do, Personality wise I'm not his biggest fan but he seems to have grasped the footballing side that is expected at WHL so fair play !!!
I hate to say it but I can't see Levy going out and buying a top striker in January, he never has really splashed the cash at this time of the year and if he does spend it will at about 5 to 12 on the 31st and will probably be a half arse attempt at what we really need !!!
One last thing how much are we missing Van der Vaart in the hole behind Defoe ?
:tickedoff:
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UGS
We were good today and AVB showed how well he can organise our lads.
Whislt I agree that we badly need this striker, your comments about Levy are pure speculation. Neither you or I know what he will do in the remaining days of this window.
Cheer up a bit! :up:
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4 pts from Man U, I would take that every day of the week matey.
I don't think we be bringing in a Striker this Window, Togo probably be Knocked out by the end of the week and Ade be back for the close of the window.
Just a complete guess here, but I think AVB would want a creative Midfeilder. Doubt we will splash the cash, so this is a long shot, but maybe Sneijader on loan with his wages subsidised? haha
Levy is sure to try something on the deadline day.
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For all those already missing Ade
Adebayor featured in Power Horse Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-G7ztyfKbQ#)
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I think that VDV is the biggest miss for us this season. Someone to unlock tight defences through the middle when Lennon, and in particular Bale, are being marked out of games. Bearing in mind, he also popped up with 15 + goals as I remember.
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Had more space to work in when attacking as ManU play attacking fluid
football as well. So more chances which weren't taken.
Hence the draw but still a good point gained.
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To get to the next level Spurs need a proven striker, problem is they wont pay the price or give the wage's so have to make do with average strikers.
Bit of a harsh statement but true
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Joolz,
While Ugs comments about Mr Levy may well be pure speculation, you would have to agree that Levy does have previous, he does have a habit of not wanting to spend money in January, and if he doesn't it could well cost us a place in the CL at the end of the year, we are in desperate need of another striker and a quality playmaker. If Defoe/Ade or Dempsey get injured we are stuffed, and they haven't really replaced either Modric or VDV have they, I still think it was a big mistake letting VDV go.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
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I agree with all of the above points but its not as easy as we all think . The top quality players , the ones that mean the difference between champions league and nowhere aren`t readily available in january as their clubs don`t want to lose them halfway through the season .We can`t expect to compete with chelsea , city and utd until we get a billionaire investor and levy isn`t showing any signs of wanting to hand over the reigns .So , the top quality players go where the wages are and that aint spurs .
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I agree with all of the above points but its not as easy as we all think . The top quality players , the ones that mean the difference between champions league and nowhere aren`t readily available in january as their clubs don`t want to lose them halfway through the season .We can`t expect to compete with chelsea , city and utd until we get a billionaire investor and levy isn`t showing any signs of wanting to hand over the reigns .So , the top quality players go where the wages are and that aint spurs .
Yes you are right. Top quality strikers mostly want a move up, not sideways. For example, RVP moved to one of the top 2 sides for 24 mill and is probably on £ 200 k. Thats what we are up against.
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Joolz,
While Ugs comments about Mr Levy may well be pure speculation, you would have to agree that Levy does have previous, he does have a habit of not wanting to spend money in January, and if he doesn't it could well cost us a place in the CL at the end of the year, we are in desperate need of another striker and a quality playmaker. If Defoe/Ade or Dempsey get injured we are stuffed, and they haven't really replaced either Modric or VDV have they, I still think it was a big mistake letting VDV go.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
All very true, Levy is not famous for spending money and we miss VDV and Modric. All I was saying is that none of us have a clue about what is going on behind the scenes. I could speculate that we could be in talks with a couple of big names and I would be as good an assumption as UGS. I prefer to believe that, and that Levy will see our potential and with AVB's results so far, he will spend some of the profits from last year's sales to buy a playmaker and a striker.
As yidmafioso states above, there are not many clubs willing to let key players go half way through the season. So let's wait and see and look at it in a positive way. There may well be a last minute surprise on Jan 31st
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The first half I think United deserved their goal. But the second half was a different game.
23- 6 to Spurs On shots
18- 4 to Spurs on target
9- 4 to Spurs on Corners.
7- 14 with United winning on the foul department.
It would have been totally criminal if we didn’t go home with something. We were far superior in the second half. Three 1 to us should have been a more just result. Spurs battled without giving up. A really good second half. The other good result was Ars*nal losing but a draw would probably have been better for us.
When I get a chance I’ll put some pictures up.
One other note of interest; Beckham was behind us – in one of the boxes – with his son.
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Joolz,
While Ugs comments about Mr Levy may well be pure speculation, you would have to agree that Levy does have previous, he does have a habit of not wanting to spend money in January, and if he doesn't it could well cost us a place in the CL at the end of the year, we are in desperate need of another striker and a quality playmaker. If Defoe/Ade or Dempsey get injured we are stuffed, and they haven't really replaced either Modric or VDV have they, I still think it was a big mistake letting VDV go.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
I agree with the above, but what makes this even more frustrating is that we have all known about this gap for a few years now. So saying Levy doesn't like to splash out in January is like saying I want Ars*nal to lose on a Tuesday. If Levy was so opposed to spending in January, maybe he should have made more of an effort in the summer. Or at the very least should be thinking -
'Now last year when Harry wanted to strengthen the side with quality and instead I gave him odd job and whoopsie daisy. Well, our season went to pot. So maybe this year I will learn from my past mistakes and try to ensure that doesn't happen again.'
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Joolz,
While Ugs comments about Mr Levy may well be pure speculation, you would have to agree that Levy does have previous, he does have a habit of not wanting to spend money in January, and if he doesn't it could well cost us a place in the CL at the end of the year, we are in desperate need of another striker and a quality playmaker. If Defoe/Ade or Dempsey get injured we are stuffed, and they haven't really replaced either Modric or VDV have they, I still think it was a big mistake letting VDV go.
:nods: :nods: :nods:
I agree with the above, but what makes this even more frustrating is that we have all known about this gap for a few years now. So saying Levy doesn't like to splash out in January is like saying I want Ars*nal to lose on a Tuesday. If Levy was so opposed to spending in January, maybe he should have made more of an effort in the summer. Or at the very least should be thinking -
'Now last year when Harry wanted to strengthen the side with quality and instead I gave him odd job and whoopsie daisy. Well, our season went to pot. So maybe this year I will learn from my past mistakes and try to ensure that doesn't happen again.'
But don’t think that AVB and Mr Levy know this? I am sure there is a lot going on behind the scenes. If for some reason they don’t buy maybe it is because they can’t get the right players or there are some other reasons we don’t know about. As fans we try to take a superior view that we are the ones who know and the manager and directors haven’t got a clue. If that, however, is the case then it doesn’t say much about those fans who support their team but are very critical. Maybe they’ve just got money to burn. Nonetheless I prefer to take the view that not all fans are as smart as they think they are. I am sure that those behind the scenes are aware of the situation and will take appropriate action.
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What makes you so sure that theres alot going on behind the scenes then Voice, or are you just speculating that there is alot going on behind the scenes ?
So your not as smart as you think you are then Voice or are you just speculating your smarter than the rest of us or maybe your speculating like the rest of us !!
Maybe you should stop speculating and offer an opinion like the rest of us !!!!
???
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What makes you so sure that theres alot going on behind the scenes then Voice, or are you just speculating that there is alot going on behind the scenes ?
So your not as smart as you think you are then Voice or are you just speculating your smarter than the rest of us or maybe your speculating like the rest of us !!
Maybe you should stop speculating and offer an opinion like the rest of us !!!!
???
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D But you made me chuckle.
But don’t think that AVB and Mr Levy know this? I am sure there is a lot going on behind the scenes. If for some reason they don’t buy maybe it is because they can’t get the right players or there are some other reasons we don’t know about. As fans we try to take a superior view that we are the ones who know and the manager and directors haven’t got a clue. If that, however, is the case then it doesn’t say much about those fans who support their team but are very critical. Maybe they’ve just got money to burn. Nonetheless I prefer to take the view that not all fans are as smart as they think they are. I am sure that those behind the scenes are aware of the situation and will take appropriate action.
I would say that Levy knows more about money than me, and AVB knows more about football. But that doesn't mean that Levy knows more about the game of football than me and what I can see with my very eyes. If he knows as much about football as I and many other fans do, then he would surely have come to the same conclusion?
Now there would be two things which would then change his course of action i.e. to not go and splash £20 million on a player:
1.) AVB (who knows more about football than you and I) says to Levy. 'No Mr Levy, I do not think we should spend any of your money. The side does not need to be strengthened in the way your football fan mind is telling you.'
OR
2.) Levy values money above the knowledge of what you, I, what he sees and knows in his football fan's mind, AND the superior football knowledge of AVB. Putting the money above a footballing decision.
That is not to say that we should spend money we do not have, which is where Levy does have the right to make decisions which are in the best interest of the club financially. If Levy is able to say, no if we spend that Money then Spurs will be at a loss and be at risk financially, then he would be correct to overall our football desires as both fans and even his wiser footballing mind of a manager.
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What makes you so sure that theres alot going on behind the scenes then Voice, or are you just speculating that there is alot going on behind the scenes ?
So your not as smart as you think you are then Voice or are you just speculating your smarter than the rest of us or maybe your speculating like the rest of us !!
Maybe you should stop speculating and offer an opinion like the rest of us !!!!
???
An opinion without substance is just pissing in the wind.
I never said there is a lot going on but presumed there is a lot going. I just said they know the situation and will make the appropriate decisions. At the same time if they don’t sign anybody then they have their reasons.
I never said I was “smart” put talking in general terms. I am quite happy for others to judge me as they wish.
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I would say that Levy knows more about money than me, and AVB knows more about football. But that doesn't mean that Levy knows more about the game of football than me and what I can see with my very eyes. If he knows as much about football as I and many other fans do, then he would surely have come to the same conclusion?
Yes, but what Levy has over the fans is that we don’t know what is discussed when dealing with transfers, and he does. He might know as much as any fan but he is in the position to do something about it. That is what I meant.
Now there would be two things which would then change his course of action i.e. to not go and splash £20 million on a player:
1.) AVB (who knows more about football than you and I) says to Levy. 'No Mr Levy, I do not think we should spend any of your money. The side does not need to be strengthened in the way your football fan mind is telling you.'
OR
2.) Levy values money above the knowledge of what you, I, what he sees and knows in his football fan's mind, AND the superior football knowledge of AVB. Putting the money above a footballing decision.
They are silly scenarios as it is not as simple as that. Like; is the right player available? Can the club afford him? They might want to buy but can’t find the right person. Don’t forget that the club has been accused of buying donkey’s in the past. So it might be better to get nothing than anybody. Also; AVB might think that we have sufficient cover; we will only know at the end of the season if he is right. Don’t forget whatever he does or doesn’t do will be decided on our final league position at the end of the season.
That is not to say that we should spend money we do not have, which is where Levy does have the right to make decisions which are in the best interest of the club financially. If Levy is able to say, no if we spend that Money then Spurs will be at a loss and be at risk financially, then he would be correct to overall our football desires as both fans and even his wiser footballing mind of a manager.
Agreed; but he isn’t going to tell us. Therefore we can only work on the assumption that whatever decision he/ they make is in the best interests of the club as a whole. He has said in the past for Spurs to compete with the top teams and have a brighter future then we have to move from our current ground, build a bigger stadium with attachments that will genrate Spurs more money; more money equals better players and better wages for those players.
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They are silly scenarios as it is not as simple as that. Like; is the right player available? Can the club afford him? They might want to buy but can’t find the right person. Don’t forget that the club has been accused of buying donkey’s in the past. So it might be better to get nothing than anybody. Also; AVB might think that we have sufficient cover; we will only know at the end of the season if he is right. Don’t forget whatever he does or doesn’t do will be decided on our final league position at the end of the season.
Of course they are silly scenarios but unless you put things into an absurd analogy it is hard to discuss things with people who are generally stuck in their ways and take things a little too seriously sometimes. Therefore, taking what probably is actually quite close to the truth, in meaning, and taking it to its extreme and ridiculous conclusion, it looks exactly like I said.
- You said 'it isn't as simple as that' which makes out that what I have said is simple, yet if you analyse it properly, it most definitely is not that. The silly scenarios need to be taken in conjunction with the final statement, not split apart to dissect the individual parts. The point is that Levy has to wear different hats, one as a fan and one as a money man. The question is, which hat does he value more than the other?
If he is a fan first and foremost he would do anything to make Spurs the best footballing side possible, but without putting Spurs at financial risk. If he is a money man first then no matter what, spurs will not take any risk that is not seen as a way to make more money. But knows that we need to be reasonably successful in order to maximise his profits.
Now what we need is a discussion based on some actual ideas around the whos, whats, whys and hows of making spurs more successful. Rather than just being blind believers in the religion of Spurs aka Levy aka AVB, where to wonder is blasphemy, to ask questions is rebellion, to dissent and dare to challenge their authority is deemed treasonous. Maybe we may get somewhere.
Or we can be sheeple and make the assumption that he/they make decisions with the best interests of the club at heart. Never question, stay quiet, believe, believe, believe and then one day you turn round and it has fallen apart around you. You know that approach has done us so well in the past. Wars fought without just cause, apartheid , poverty, hunger, destruction of the environment, pollution, slavery, the list goes on and on. Too many people just trusting those in power... until one day someone draws a line and says enough. Now life at spurs is not that extreme, in fact it is pretty good right now. But never expect or tell me we can only work on that particular assumption.
As you have said, we can only judge him at the end of the season. Which is fair and valid, but if we only ever do that, if we are unable to foresee potential collapse, if we are not taking action to prevent unnecessary difficulties, or striving to be the best we could be, then we will look back at this time and ask, why didn't we do something sooner?
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Heres a question to everyone. In today economic climate, why doe anyone believe there is even any money?
Apart from Man city and Chelsea does any club even spend more than £10m net off all transfers any more?
Everton, Arsenel , Newcastle, Villa, Liverpool have hardly spent anything in recent years. So why should we be any different? Maybe the money just isn't there anymore?
Also our wages have definitely increase drastically since Jol was in charge. So even thou money is not being spent in transfers, the wage bill i think has increased in terms of higher wages and the number of snr players on big monies.
No making an excuse, I'm just putting the idea out for everybody to discuss
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Heres a question to everyone. In today economic climate, why doe anyone believe there is even any money?
Apart from Man city and Chelsea does any club even spend more than £10m net off all transfers any more?
Everton, Arsenel , Newcastle, Villa, Liverpool have hardly spent anything in recent years. So why should we be any different? Maybe the money just isn't there anymore?
Also our wages have definitely increase drastically since Jol was in charge. So even thou money is not being spent in transfers, the wage bill i think has increased in terms of higher wages and the number of snr players on big monies.
No making an excuse, I'm just putting the idea out for everybody to discuss
I can see where you are coming from. But the truth is that today's economic climate is pretty much a controlled system collapse, designed in order to obtain more money in the long run. Those owners running football clubs are not doing without. Funny, how football clubs are getting more money now from ticket prices, TV, sponsorship etc. than ever before. Okay so yes the wages have gone up as well to reflect this, but there is no downturn for the big clubs. They will just use the economic downturn as a way to cut down on expenditure, whilst still taking more income than ever before. It is a game, played by the fat cats. When times are good in society they will have to fight more to get you to spend more of your increased disposable income on them, therefore will try and deliver a better product.
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If we go back just 4 years, to the 2009 January window, Harry's first one in charge.
Levy spent 42 million on the likes of Keane Defoe Palacios Chimbonda which on the face of it was necessary at the time.
But how many of them worked out ? Defoe, and thats it.
What with transfer inflation caused by Man City, etc, we could expect a similar bunch of second rate players these days to cost 60 mill +.
Therefore is it any wonder that Levy might be a little apprehensive about blank cheques ??
IMO if AVB has identified the kind of player(s) he needs, in private to Levy, without disrupting the current excellent team morale, and a prudent deal can be done, then I think it will. I do not feel that AVB needs telling what our weaknesses are. He has already been quoted as saying that our striker situation is a risk.
Pure speculation admittedly, but then so is everybody elses opinion.
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We are all wasting our time, no matter what we say, whether we speculate, state facts or make light of situations, Voice will always tell us we are wrong, that we don't know what we are talking about, that we are speculating, that we don't know what is going on behind closed doors, and that we should put our trust in Mr.Levy. Voice will never admit all the time his ARSEHOLE points to the ground that, maybe just maybe MR f**kING LEVY doesn't care where we finish in the league, doesn't care if we play CL, doesn't give a flying f**k what we, the supporters want, the only thing he is interested in is making a BIG FAT PROFIT, someone should tell him(Levy) that perhaps he has to SPECULATE in order to ACCUMULATE. No doubt Voice you will tell me that I am wrong with my last statement(the highlighted one).
:nods: :nods: :nods:
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Yes, you have all guessed correctly, I am totally pissed off with Mr Levy, a word of advice to you Mr Levy, open your Cheque book and give the man you employed as Coach the opportunity to achieve what he is trying to achieve, and that is something we all crave, some long awaited success.
:tickedoff: :tickedoff: :tickedoff:
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Dear Mr Finch,
Thank you for kind advice. It is something I will take into consideration.
Yours sincerely,
D. Levy
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I appreciate your humour Riff, I must admit I am sitting here chuckling as I read your post.
:ohyeah: :ohyeah: :ohyeah:
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A PS to your Post Riff.
Not that I give a s**t what you, AVB or the rest of Fans want.
:nope: :nope: :nope:
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Doesn't matter, made a nice profit.
lol
DL
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I would say without a shadow of a doubt that both Levy & AVB religiously read all our posts daily. There is no doubt in my mind that they will take all our comments into serious consideration and that Levy will pull his cheque book out shortly just to please us!
:2funny: :2funny:
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I would say without a shadow of a doubt that both Levy & AVB religiously read all our posts daily. There is no doubt in my mind that they will take all our comments into serious consideration and that Levy will pull his cheque book out shortly just to please us!
:2funny: :2funny:
They probably don't even know SN exists. :-[
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Are you sure?
:lol:
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Of course they are silly scenarios but unless you put things into an absurd analogy it is hard to discuss things with people who are generally stuck in their ways and take things a little too seriously sometimes. Therefore, taking what probably is actually quite close to the truth, in meaning, and taking it to its extreme and ridiculous conclusion, it looks exactly like I said.
It is not a case of being serious but realistic. Of course we could speculate until the cows come home, but that doesn’t really achieve anything other than keep us from getting bored.
- You said 'it isn't as simple as that' which makes out that what I have said is simple, yet if you analyse it properly, it most definitely is not that. The silly scenarios need to be taken in conjunction with the final statement, not split apart to dissect the individual parts. The point is that Levy has to wear different hats, one as a fan and one as a money man. The question is, which hat does he value more than the other?
If he is a fan first and foremost he would do anything to make Spurs the best footballing side possible, but without putting Spurs at financial risk. If he is a money man first then no matter what, spurs will not take any risk that is not seen as a way to make more money. But knows that we need to be reasonably successful in order to maximise his profits.
He is a director of Tottenham Hotspur so his priority is the stability and success of the club. They both must work injunction with each other. Being a fan would come behind that.
Now what we need is a discussion based on some actual ideas around the whos, whats, whys and hows of making spurs more successful. Rather than just being blind believers in the religion of Spurs aka Levy aka AVB, where to wonder is blasphemy, to ask questions is rebellion, to dissent and dare to challenge their authority is deemed treasonous. Maybe we may get somewhere.
Or we can be sheeple and make the assumption that he/they make decisions with the best interests of the club at heart. Never question, stay quiet, believe, believe, believe and then one day you turn round and it has fallen apart around you. You know that approach has done us so well in the past. Wars fought without just cause, apartheid , poverty, hunger, destruction of the environment, pollution, slavery, the list goes on and on. Too many people just trusting those in power... until one day someone draws a line and says enough. Now life at spurs is not that extreme, in fact it is pretty good right now. But never expect or tell me we can only work on that particular assumption.
As you have said, we can only judge him at the end of the season. Which is fair and valid, but if we only ever do that, if we are unable to foresee potential collapse, if we are not taking action to prevent unnecessary difficulties, or striving to be the best we could be, then we will look back at this time and ask, why didn't we do something sooner?
There is nothing wrong with asking questions or challenging but they must be the right ones. We can speculate who they should bring in or if we need someone else. But we also must bear in mind that this is just fan speculation and we don’t know everything and if he does buy or doesn’t then we must accept that his decision – based on there is a lot of things we don’t know – is the right one. However, it won’t be until the end of the season to know if his decision was right or wrong. But we must bear in mind that supporters’ speculation is just mind imaginary or pissing in the wind, as I said.
I also agree that we must voice our concerns when the situation arises; such as Spurs struggling, failing their potential etc. But as we are nowhere near such a scenario, in fact we are in a healthy situation, then our wholeheartedly support should be on the cards; i.e. whatever decision Mr Levy makes is in the best interest of the club and we should support that, until the time comes that it is show that his decisions were wrong and detrimental to club.
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We are all wasting our time, no matter what we say, whether we speculate, state facts or make light of situations, Voice will always tell us we are wrong, that we don't know what we are talking about, that we are speculating, that we don't know what is going on behind closed doors, and that we should put our trust in Mr.Levy. Voice will never admit all the time his ARSEHOLE points to the ground that, maybe just maybe MR f**kING LEVY doesn't care where we finish in the league, doesn't care if we play CL, doesn't give a flying f**k what we, the supporters want, the only thing he is interested in is making a BIG FAT PROFIT, someone should tell him(Levy) that perhaps he has to SPECULATE in order to ACCUMULATE. No doubt Voice you will tell me that I am wrong with my last statement(the highlighted one).
:nods: :nods: :nods:
I noticed that you can only reply by using gutter language. With your closed mind attitude towards AVB added I think it tells us or shows us your limitations. Which is sad. You should try debating without using such profanities. Remember you are judged by how you articulate towards others. If you want a serious debate then reply accordingly.
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Ok guys.
Have read all your posts and see your concerns.
Not something I had noticed from my box at WHL as we seem to be doing
well this season with our new manager at the helm.
However have got a spare few million so please let me know which signings
you want me to go for this month. But be patient as I only like dicing with
death so it will be at the very end of the transfer window!
Yours
Daniel
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if he does buy or doesn’t then we must accept that his decision – based on there is a lot of things we don’t know – is the right one.
No we do not have to accept it, why do we have to accept it? True there is little we can do about it but we do not have to agree with it or take the opinion that it is the right one. That is just dumb obedience!
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£4million or what ever it is being reported of what we have lost this year.
There just isn't the money anymore. Uefa financial fair play come in to play soon, no monies for the honies
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if he does buy or doesn’t then we must accept that his decision – based on there is a lot of things we don’t know – is the right one.
No we do not have to accept it, why do we have to accept it? True there is little we can do about it but we do not have to agree with it or take the opinion that it is the right one. That is just dumb obedience!
The reason we have to accept it is because there is no legitimate contradictions that support an opposing view. The only views we possible could use would be tainted and without all the appropriate facts at our disposal. Unless you know something the rest of us don't.
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The reason we have to accept it is because there is no legitimate contradictions that support an opposing view. The only views we possible could use would be tainted and without all the appropriate facts at our disposal. Unless you know something the rest of us don't.
Say what now????
No legitimate contradictions? Are you saying that any view that contradicts what you are saying is not legitimate? And any view that is different from what we are told is tainted, because we do not have all the facts???? Are you having a laugh mate? No I do not know something anyone else does not, but that does not mean I have to believe everything I am told either. Even if I did as you have said and just accepted the official story, I would still be making a judgement without knowing all of the appropriate facts. The facts are not just facts because someone said they were, they have to be verified. We are all in the dark, therefore we all know naff all, therefore no one can claim to be more right than anyone else. If you choose to believe, that is your choice and I won't try and stop you. But don't tell me that your view is the only accurate way to see things, because quite frankly that is a load of ... if you catch my drift?
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Say what now????
No legitimate contradictions? Are you saying that any view that contradicts what you are saying is not legitimate? And any view that is different from what we are told is tainted, because we do not have all the facts???? Are you having a laugh mate? No I do not know something anyone else does not, but that does not mean I have to believe everything I am told either. Even if I did as you have said and just accepted the official story, I would still be making a judgement without knowing all of the appropriate facts. The facts are not just facts because someone said they were, they have to be verified. We are all in the dark, therefore we all know naff all, therefore no one can claim to be more right than anyone else. If you choose to believe, that is your choice and I won't try and stop you. But don't tell me that your view is the only accurate way to see things, because quite frankly that is a load of ... if you catch my drift?
I think you have misunderstood what I said.
I am not suggesting that you believe everything you are told (I certainly don’t). But at the same time it doesn’t make what you are told (i.e. through official channels) wrong unless you have facts to justify your judgments. Also; if you thing certain facts are wrong or what you were told isn’t right then what do you base your conclusions on? On top of that we are only fans; people like Levy and AVB know more than we do; because of their position. That is all I am trying to say. And I am not talking about my views; I know nothing more than you do.
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I think you have misunderstood what I said.
I am not suggesting that you believe everything you are told (I certainly don’t). But at the same time it doesn’t make what you are told (i.e. through official channels) wrong unless you have facts to justify your judgments. Also; if you thing certain facts are wrong or what you were told isn’t right then what do you base your conclusions on? On top of that we are only fans; people like Levy and AVB know more than we do; because of their position. That is all I am trying to say. And I am not talking about my views; I know nothing more than you do.
To be fair you may be correct, as I read it a few times trying to get your angle, hence why there were so many questions in my reply. Eitherway, it is sometimes hard to justify your opinion when it opposes the official truth. You may not have access or the ability to know and prove the inaccuracy of what you are told, but it doesn't mean you are wrong either. It may only be a gut feeling, which would not stand up in court, but is still the ultimate truth. I can think of a few major events that this is true for. 9-11, the Iraq war, the money system, Jimmy Saville etc etc.
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I think you have misunderstood what I said.
I am not suggesting that you believe everything you are told (I certainly don’t). But at the same time it doesn’t make what you are told (i.e. through official channels) wrong unless you have facts to justify your judgments. Also; if you thing certain facts are wrong or what you were told isn’t right then what do you base your conclusions on? On top of that we are only fans; people like Levy and AVB know more than we do; because of their position. That is all I am trying to say. And I am not talking about my views; I know nothing more than you do.
To be fair you may be correct, as I read it a few times trying to get your angle, hence why there were so many questions in my reply. Eitherway, it is sometimes hard to justify your opinion when it opposes the official truth. You may not have access or the ability to know and prove the inaccuracy of what you are told, but it doesn't mean you are wrong either. It may only be a gut feeling, which would not stand up in court, but is still the ultimate truth. I can think of a few major events that this is true for. 9-11, the Iraq war, the money system, Jimmy Saville etc etc.
Fair point.
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Voice,
You will never learn will you, as far as you are concerned Mr.Levy can do no wrong. If you had bothered to read my posts, which obviously you didn't, you would have seen that I was in fact having a go at Levy, not AVB, in fact had you have bothered to read them you would have seen that I was in fact defending AVB, so before you bother to reply, at least have the temerity and good manners to read peoples posts, before you slag them off. That is of course if you can find the time, in between increasing your posts with writing drivel.
:nope: :nope:
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Voice,
You will never learn will you, as far as you are concerned Mr.Levy can do no wrong. If you had bothered to read my posts, which obviously you didn't, you would have seen that I was in fact having a go at Levy, not AVB, in fact had you have bothered to read them you would have seen that I was in fact defending AVB, so before you bother to reply, at least have the temerity and good manners to read peoples posts, before you slag them off. That is of course if you can find the time, in between increasing your posts with writing drivel.
:nope: :nope:
I could say the same about you; trying reading posts. I have never said that Mr Levy can do know wrong; I’ve criticised him in the past and will continue to criticise him when necessary. However, I will also give him a fair crack at the whip when necessary.
You have said on here that you didn’t like AVB and would never like him no matter what he does. And as you pointed you also don’t like Mr Levy; in fact who do you like? Oh, yes… Harry.
Do you have the ability to debate without going down to the gutter to find the words you want? There are many people who don’t agree with me but do not stoop to low intelligent remarks. I am happy to debate anything and even told I am wrong; but there are ways and means to correspond with people.
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Voice you basically just keep posting drivel until no one can be bothered to debate with you anymore, in other words you bore them to death in many cases. It's also a bit of the pot calling the kettle over gutter language and insulting remarks you are pretty adept at using them yourself.
Anyway I'll stop making my point because I know you'll only just want to prove me wrong with more drivel and I just can't be arsed to argue the point with you anymore !!!!
:up:
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Voice you basically just keep posting drivel until no one can be bothered to debate with you anymore, in other words you bore them to death in many cases. It's also a bit of the pot calling the kettle over gutter language and insulting remarks you are pretty adept at using them yourself.
The only two members on here complain that I am talking drivel and they are the two I accused of being Boo boys. And what is interesting instead of refusing to argue with me they persist in replying to me in a retaliating form. It will be interesting to see if you follow your own prophesy. Somehow I doubt it.
My language is not as ferocious as Mr Finch, who prefers using industrial language. Others have no problem debating in a civil manner.
Anyway I'll stop making my point because I know you'll only just want to prove me wrong with more drivel and I just can't be arsed to argue the point with you anymore !!!!
:up:
Actually, you are proving yourself wrong. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.